Send Close Add comments: (status displays here)
Got it!  This site "creationpie.com" uses cookies. You consent to this by clicking on "Got it!" or by continuing to use this website.  Note: This appears on each machine/browser from which this site is accessed.
A security model for speaking in tongues
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640


1. A tongue in cheek model for Pentecost
Verse routeActs 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι ωφθησαν αυτοις διαμεριζομεναι γλωσσαι ωσει πυρος και εκαθισεν εφ ενα εκαστον αυτων [gnt]
Verse routedispertitae linguae … [v]

Jesus enabled others to speak and listen at Pentecost One candle two flames
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit provided the impetus for "speaking in tongues". To provide understanding, a model is presented of this phenomena with a Universal Language from the creation, through the Tower of Babel, to Pentecost to Paul on the road to Damascus and to speaking in tongues in general.
The "flame" that rested on each head may have special significance.
Information sign More: The security of flaming swords
Information sign More: A tongue in cheek model for Pentecost

2. Tongues review
 ▶ 
 + 
 - 
 1 God spoke to Adam and others 
 2 God spoke to the prophets 
 3 Jesus spoke to Paul on Road to Damascus 
 4 Jesus enabled others to speak and listen at Pentecost 
 5 Tongues security model 

Here is a review of the main points of the Universal Language as it relates to "speaking in tongues".
Information sign More: A tongue in cheek model for Pentecost

3. Holy Spirit
SmileyPentecost is a happy time for Christians as the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus in John chapters 14 to 16 (and other places) has arrived.

4. Speaking out in tongues
Smiley - tongueNote that the discussion here is on the "speaking out in tongues" and not the "sticking out of tongues".

5. Forked tongues
Note that the discussion is on "cloven tongues" or "split tongues" and not on "forked tongues".

In Native American tribes, to "speak in a forked tongue" was to "lie". This phrase was adopted during the time of the American Revolution. To tell the truth was to talk with a "straight tongue".

One needs a security model for deciding between "forked tongue" or "straight tongue".
Information sign More: A tongue in cheek model for Pentecost

6. A security model for speaking in tongues
Tongues issueAfter Pentecost, the idea of "speaking in tongues" arose at various times and places.

The observance of "speaking in tongues" could be authentic or it might not be authentic.

In a security analysis, one models how someone might try to imitate, or spoof, a given behavior. That is, one details attacks that can be made on the system or model.

How might someone or a group imitate or spoof the above behavior? Some reasons for doing so might include power, money, status, etc.
Jesus enabled others to speak and listen at Pentecost Tongues security model
In this security model of a possible attack, the "Others" are now the faithful who have been relegated to an outside status as they do not understand what is being said.

Do the speaker and listener understand? Some communication and security ideas are needed.

7. Communication security and authentication
Alice to BobThe classic communication scenario has A sending a message to B. Usually, A is chosen as Alice who is sending a message to B who is chosen as Bob.
The primary security issues that can arise include the following.

8. Discerning messages
God and Satan sending messagesThese security concepts are relevant to the Universal Language. One cannot fool God, but an adversary (such as Satan or his helpers or other humans) can fool a person who are not careful.

How might one know or determine if a message is from God or from Satan?

This is often done by the "power of suggestion".
Future topic Details are left as a future topic.


9. Hearing voices
Is the message from God, Satan, etc.?
Augustine was the first to talk about hearing voices that compete with each other.

10. Hercules
Hercules at the crossroadsThis is somewhat like the choices Hercules faced between "bad" and "good" (virtue).

At the crossroads Hercules has a choice.

11. Decision procedure
Decision procedure Book: Decision proceduresA "decision procedure" in computer science is a method or algorithm that, given some input, makes a decision that can be though of as "yes" or "no". Note: A "decision tree" rotates the tree and has more nodes to make decisions, things to happen, etc.

12. Decision procedure
Assume the above security model of a possible attack. What is an effective decision procedure to discern authentic behavior from spoofed behavior?

Decision: Is the message (tongues) authentic? Is it from God?

13. Paul and decision procedures
Paul attempts to provide a decision procedure, in terms of policies, for determining legitimate or illegitimate "speaking in tongues".

This might have been a particular problem in Corinth, as all the verses are from 1 Corinthians.
Nature Made vitamin D3 bottleIn general, Paul often provides advice as "vitamins" that if taken when not needed, or taken to excess, may cause extra work but may also cause harm.
Future topic Details are left as a future topic.

In reading the following verses, answer the following question. How well do the policies of Paul address, identify, prevent and/or mitigate a attack by way of a spoofed behavior of "speaking in tongues"?

The context is that of "gifts" of each "member" of the church.
Future topic Details are left as a future topic.


14. Gifts
Jesus enabled others to speak and listen at Pentecost
Verse route1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: [kjv]

There are two gifts of interest here.

15. 1 Corinthians 12:10
 All 
KJV: To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Greek: αλλω δε ενεργηματα δυναμεων αλλω δε προφητεια αλλω δε διακρισεις πνευματων ετερω δε γενη γλωσσων αλλω δε ερμηνεια γλωσσων

16. Strongs - kinds

17. Strongs - tongue

18. Strongs - interpretation

19. Gifts
Does everyone have every gift? Is one gift more important than another gift?

Verse route1 Corinthians 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? [kjv]

Some pastors do not want to acknowledge certain gifts of their flock. What gift might not be desired?

20. 1 Corinthians 12:30
 All 
KJV: Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
Greek: μη παντες χαρισματα εχουσιν ιαματων μη παντες γλωσσαις λαλουσιν μη παντες διερμηνευουσιν

21. Strongs - speak

22. Strongs - interpret

23. Chapter and verse divisions
ScrollChapter divisions were added (and chapters numbered) in the Middle Ages in the 13th century. Later, in 1551, in the Middle Ages, verse divisions were added (and verses numbered).

It is best to always check surrounding verses and, when appropriate, verses in the previous or next chapter, to see if those verses have important meaning for the context.
Information sign More: Chapter and verse divisions

24. Love chapter
Heart SingleThe popular "love chapter" is a continuation of chapter 12 addressing gifts, members and, especially, "speaking in tongues" and "interpreters".

Verse route1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. [kjv]

Verse route13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [kjv]

The only gift that appears to relate to "sounding brass" and "tinkling cymbal" is the unintelligible gift of "tongues".

25. 1 Corinthians 12:31
 All 
KJV: But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Greek: ζηλουτε δε τα χαρισματα τα κρειττονα μειζονα και ετι καθ υπερβολην οδον υμιν δεικνυμι

26. 1 Corinthians 13:1
 All 
KJV: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Greek: εαν ταις γλωσσαις των ανθρωπων λαλω και των αγγελων αγαπην δε μη εχω γεγονα χαλκος ηχων η κυμβαλον αλαλαζον

27. Disappearing tongues
Paul says that "tongues" shall cease.

Verse route1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [kjv]

Based on Pentecost, and the Universal Language Model, when the Tower of Babel confusion is fully and permanently reversed, "tongues" as we know them shall "cease".

28. 1 Corinthians 13:8
 All 
KJV: Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Greek: η αγαπη ουδεποτε εκπιπτει πιπτει ειτε δε προφητειαι καταργηθησονται ειτε γλωσσαι παυσονται ειτε γνωσις καταργηθησεται
Latin: caritas numquam excidit sive prophetiae evacuabuntur sive linguae cessabunt sive scientia destruetur

29. Children
Even small children can be understood as to what they are saying.

Verse route1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [kjv]

This is not true for the "speaking in tongues" addressed by Paul.

Should such "speaking in tongues" be "put away" as a "childish thing"?

30. 1 Corinthians 13:11
 All 
KJV: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Greek: οτε ημην νηπιος ως νηπιος ελαλουν ως νηπιος εφρονουν ως νηπιος ελογιζομην ως νηπιος οτε δε γεγονα ανηρ κατηργηκα τα του νηπιου

31. Love chapter
This popular "love chapter" is continued in chapter 14, some of which is covered here. Again, the chapter division here is arbitrary. Paul returns to "tongues".

Verse route1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. [kjv]


32. 1 Corinthians 14:2
 All 
KJV: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Greek: ο γαρ λαλων γλωσση ουκ ανθρωποις λαλει αλλα τω θεω ουδεις γαρ ακουει πνευματι δε λαλει μυστηρια

33. Meaning
It appears that the "speaking in tongues" was not providing any useful side-effect.

Verse route1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. [kjv]

Prophesying would be better, Paul says.

34. 1 Corinthians 14:5
 All 
KJV: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Greek: θελω δε παντας υμας λαλειν γλωσσαις μαλλον δε ινα προφητευητε μειζων γαρ δε ο προφητευων η ο λαλων γλωσσαις εκτος ει μη διερμηνευη ινα η εκκλησια οικοδομην λαβη
Latin: volo autem omnes vos loqui linguis magis autem prophetare nam maior est qui prophetat quam qui loquitur linguis nisi si forte ut interpretetur ut ecclesia aedificationem accipiat

35. Strongs - edify
ConerstoneThe Greek word for "edify" has to do with "building" such as build up the believers. In part, a prophet usually speaks in clear language so that he is understood and needs to provide short range prophecies to verify his true words and then long range prophecies.
 
Why did the IRS audit the church?

36. Prophecy and profits
Verse routeMatthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. [kjv]
Verse routeπαντες γαρ οι προφηται και ο νομος εως ιωαννου επροφητευσαν [gnt]

Verse route1 Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? [kjv]
Verse route νυν δε αδελφοι εαν ελθω προς υμας γλωσσαις λαλων τι υμας ωφελησω εαν μη υμιν λαλησω η εν αποκαλυψει η εν γνωσει η εν προφητεια η εν διδαχη [gnt]

Paul continues with "prophecy" and "tongues". In English, the word for "prophet" and "profit" have the same sound. These words are sometimes used to make puns. The Greek words, however, are different.
 
Why did the IRS audit the church?
Information sign More: Apocrypha: Silent years

37. Matthew 11:13
 All 
KJV: For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Greek: παντες γαρ οι προφηται και ο νομος εως ιωαννου προεφητευσαν επροφητευσαν

38. 1 Corinthians 14:6
 All 
KJV: Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
Greek: νυνι νυν δε αδελφοι εαν ελθω προς υμας γλωσσαις λαλων τι υμας ωφελησω εαν μη υμιν λαλησω η εν αποκαλυψει η εν γνωσει η εν προφητεια η εν διδαχη

39. Profits
Many people think of a "prophet" as someone who "foretells" the future.

A more common feature of a "prophet" is in "forth-telling" as in telling the truth or pointing out the truth.This can be hard to verify if the what is said is not clear as to meaning - as in "speaking in tongues".

Leaders tend to have their "false prophets" who say what the king wants to hear rather than "true prophets".

40. Luke 6:22-23
Verse routeLuke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. [kjv]
Verse route6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. [kjv]

In the version of the Beatitudes found in Luke, true and false teachers are mentioned. It appears that the time will come, if it has not already, that "standing up" for Jesus will get you into big trouble.

For a song written about standing up for Jesus, see the following.

41. Luke 6:24-26
Verse routeLuke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich ! for ye have received your consolation. [kjv]
Verse route6:25 Woe unto you that are full ! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now ! for ye shall mourn and weep. [kjv]
Verse route6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. [kjv]

Skipping the verses that parallel previous verses on riches and hunger, we get to the parallel verses of the above.

Do these verses say (or imply) that if the world praises you, then you are a "false prophet", telling the world what the world wants to hear?

Discussion question: Is a phrase that Christians need to "outlove the world" a phrase that would be said by a "true prophet" or a "false prophet". Explain. You might consider the following in your explanation.

42. Unknown tongue
Translation issuePaul would rather the person be the one to interpret.

Verse route1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. [kjv]

The "unknown" appears to be inferred from previous verses as it is not present in the Greek.

43. Interpretation
Jesus enabled others to speak and listen at Pentecost Tongues security model Red flag
In the original "speaking in tongues" in Acts 2, there is no need for an "interpreter". Does this raise a "red flag"?

The "others" as outsiders are now the faithful believers. This should raise a "red flag"?

44. 1 Corinthians 14:13
 All 
KJV: Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Greek: διοπερ διο ο λαλων γλωσση προσευχεσθω ινα διερμηνευη
Latin: et ideo qui loquitur lingua oret ut interpretetur
Wycliffe: And therfor he that spekith in langage, preie, that he expowne.
Tyndale: Wherfore let him that speaketh with tonges praye that he maye interpret also.
Luther: Darum, welcher mit Zungen redet, der bete also, daß er's auch auslege.

45. 1 Corinthians 14:26
 All 
KJV: How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Greek: τι ουν εστιν αδελφοι οταν συνερχησθε εκαστος υμων ψαλμον εχει διδαχην εχει γλωσσαν εχει αποκαλυψιν εχει γλωσσαν εχει ερμηνειαν εχει παντα προς οικοδομην γενεσθω γινεσθω

46. Unknown tongue
Translation issue
Verse route1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [kjv]

The "unknown" appears to be inferred from previous verses as it is not present in the Greek.

47. 1 Corinthians 14:27
 All 
KJV: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
Greek: ειτε γλωσση τις λαλει κατα δυο η το πλειστον τρεις και ανα μερος και εις διερμηνευετω
Latin: sive lingua quis loquitur secundum duos aut ut multum tres et per partes et unus interpretetur

48. Interpreter
Paul does not want someone speaking in tongues if there is no one there to interpret.

Verse route1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. [kjv]

According to the Acts 2 model, if this is from God, an interpreter should not be needed.

49. 1 Corinthians 14:28
 All 
KJV: But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Greek: εαν δε μη η διερμηνευτης σιγατω εν εκκλησια εαυτω δε λαλειτω και τω θεω

50. Silence
 ▶ 
 + 
 - 
 1 Speech is silver 
 2 Silence is golden 
 3 Duct tape is silver 
This is one of those times when "silence is golden".
Verse routeProverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. [kjv]
Verse routeανοητω επερωτησαντι σοφιαν σοφια λογισθησεται ενεον δε τις εαυτον ποιησας δοξει φρονιμος ειναι [lxx]


51. Proverbs 17:28
 All 
KJV: Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
Hebrew: גם אויל מחריש חכם יחשב אטם שפתיו נבון׃
Greek: ανοητω επερωτησαντι σοφιαν σοφια λογισθησεται ενεον δε τις εαυτον ποιησας δοξει φρονιμος ειναι
Latin: stultus quoque si tacuerit sapiens putabitur et si conpresserit labia sua intellegens
Wycliffe: Also a foole, if he is stille, schal be gessid a wijs man; and, if he pressith togidre hise lippis, he`schal be gessid an vndurstondynge man.
Luther: Ein Narr, wenn er schwiege, würde auch weise gerechnet und verständig, wenn er das Maul hielte.
Spanish: Aun el necio, cuando calla, es contado por sabio; el que cierra sus labios es entendido.
Portuguese: Um insensato silencioso passa por sábio; se fecha a boca parece inteligente.

52. Silence
What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein (Austrian-British philosopher)
Information sign More: Ludwig Wittgenstein

53. Security analysis
Jesus enabled others to speak and listen at Pentecost Tongues security model How might an attacker spoof or get around the decision procedure (or security policy) suggested by Paul?
How might the policies be changed to better prevent, detect and/or recover from attacks?

54. Cross examination
One approach or decision procedure that one might use is a legal approach of cross examination whereby speakers and interpreters are separated such that all interpretations can be compared and such that prior planning is precluded.

55. Daniel: Susanna in Babylon
One of the first documented cases of cross examinations of separated witnesses in a legal setting is that of Daniel at the trial of Susanna - which is part of the Apocrypha as Daniel chapter 13. It is part of the LXX (Septuagint) and called the ancient Greek word "Σωσαννα""Susanna" .

The book of "Susanna" is sometimes called "Susanna and the Elders".
In the story, Daniel is called in and says that he is "innocent of this blood". Matthew uses this similar saying to describe what Pilate says of the blood of Jesus.

Verse routeMatthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. [kjv]
Verse routeιδων δε ο πιλατος οτι ουδεν ωφελει αλλα μαλλον θορυβος γινεται λαβων υδωρ απενιψατο τας χειρας κατεναντι του οχλου λεγων αθωος ειμι απο του αιματος τουτου υμεις οψεσθε [gnt]

Information sign More: Daniel: Susanna in Babylon

56. Daniel: Susanna in Babylon
One of the first documented cases of cross examinations of separated witnesses in a legal setting is that of Daniel at the trial of Susanna - which is part of the Apocrypha as Daniel chapter 13. It is part of the LXX and called the ancient Greek word "Σωσαννα""Susanna" .

The book of "Susanna" is sometimes called "Susanna and the Elders".
In the story, Daniel is called in and says that he is "innocent of this blood". Matthew uses this similar saying to describe what Pilate says of the blood of Jesus.

Verse routeMatthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. [kjv]
Verse routeιδων δε ο πιλατος οτι ουδεν ωφελει αλλα μαλλον θορυβος γινεται λαβων υδωρ απενιψατο τας χειρας κατεναντι του οχλου λεγων αθωος ειμι απο του αιματος τουτου υμεις οψεσθε [gnt]

Information sign More: Daniel: Susanna in Babylon

57. Galileo
There is a story (detailed by Gleick in his book The information) of Galileo and communication (related to the compass) whereby someone tried to interest him a set of magnetic sympathetic needles. Separate them by a long distance, and moving one caused the other one to move the same way. Somewhat like the modern entanglement of small particles in quantum physics. Galileo asked for a cross-examination type demonstration by doing it from the next room. The person told Galileo it only worked at long distance. Galileo was not interested. Somewhat like the double-slit experiment in quantum physics.Measuring it closely caused it not to work.

58. Uncertainty principle
In quantum physics, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, when generalized, says that in trying to measure both position and momentum, the measurement itself interferes in the measurement process.
The argument that can be by those speaking in tongues is that "if you try to cross examine" or use some other way to detect the nature of the tongues, it will interfere in the process. Or it will cause the process not to work.

59. Observation
It is interesting that humans often replicate or spoof a perceived reality rather than an actual reality.

60. Forgeries
ForgeryThis how many forgeries are detected. The forger uses information that everyone thought was correct but, at some point, someone discovers new information such that what the forger wrote is seen to be clearly false for that time period.
Future topic Details are left as a future topic.


61. Relics
There have been many instances where ancient relics are found that are very rare.

Museums, organizations, rich people etc., will pay a lot for the limited number of relics found.

There are native people to that area, or others, who will then create what appears to be authentic relics to sell for the money.

62. Artistic reality
James Burke (British historical scientist) says (paraphrased) that people do not want reality as raw data - it scares them and they cannot understand it. They prefer an artistic impression of reality that is easier to accept, even if it is not correct.
Information sign More: James Burke

63. Tongues
Once people find out about speaking in tongues, if the perception is that it is in an actual human language, the spoof may be in an actual and different human language. It is not clear, however, that the original tongues at Pentecost were in human language. It could have been in the Universal Language which could be indistinguishable from a native language.

64. Pentecostal revival
Pentecostal fllameThis idea of tongues is addressed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12, 13 and 14. The idea exploded from the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles in 1906 until 1915 and developed into the modern Pentecostal movement.
Future topic Details are left as a future topic.


65. History
It is interesting that, throughout history, at some point, a group of people start to believe and/or imitate some behavior or characteristic.

That behavior or characteristic is considered to make one "superior" to those who do not have it.

This results in a gathering of members in that organization. And yet, that special "thing" remained hidden for hundreds or thousands of years, and may be something that Jesus did not actually do in the flesh (or spirit). All those people before missed out on that "special" opportunity.

Does any of that appear to follow from the teachings of Jesus? Rock and sandIt might be part of human nature to create houses of sand - human organization - and then compete for special positions in that hierarchy while "enslaving" those in the hierarchy below. This is often done by a "salvation by works" viewpoint.

Using the example of Paul, be careful not to criticize any faith or faithful directly as there may be many who are doing what Jesus wants them to do. Instead, indirectly point out parts of the man-made human hierarchy sand edifice as having issues with what Jesus and the Bible say.

66. End of page

by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640