Shepherds and Presbyterians

Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. [kjv]

και ποιμενες ησαν εν τη χωρα τη αυτη αγραυλουντες και φυλασσοντες φυλακας της νυκτος επι την ποιμνην αυτων [gnt]

… pastores … custodientes vigilias … gregem … [v]

[Linus, Charlie Brown]
[Charles Schultz]
[network TV]

When the "shepherds" were watching there flocks on Christmas night, were any of the "shepherds" Presbyterians?

The ancient Greek word "ποιμήν" (pee-MEEN) ≈ "shepherd, herdsman" which comes from the word for "protect" since the job of a shepherd was to protect the animals.
The Latin word "pastor" ≈ "shepherd" from which we get the English word "pastor".

Note: This question is presented "tongue in cheek", but not necessarily "tongue in check", but, nevertheless, has some interesting aspects from the Bible texts.

The older root meaning of presbyterian is from the ancient Greek word "πρέσβυς" ≈ "aged, elder" is that of "one who leads cattle" from "πρεσ" as "before" and "βυς" as "cattle".

Luke 2:8

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KJV: And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Greek: και ποιμενες ησαν εν τη χωρα τη αυτη αγραυλουντες και φυλασσοντες φυλακας της νυκτος επι την ποιμνην αυτων

Latin: et pastores erant in regione eadem vigilantes et custodientes vigilias noctis supra gregem suum

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. [kjv]

τοτε λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους παντες υμεις σκανδαλισθησεσθε εν εμοι εν τη νυκτι ταυτη γεγραπται γαρ παταξω τον ποιμενα και διασκορπισθησονται τα προβατα της ποιμνης [gnt]

… scandalum … pastorem … [v]

Where does it say that the "shepherds" were watching "sheep"?

The modern Greek word "ποιμένα" (pee-MEH-na) ≈ "shepherd, herdsman".
The ancient Greek word "ποιμήν" (pee-MEEN) ≈ "shepherd, herdsman" which comes from the word for "protect" since the job of a shepherd was to protect the animals.
The Latin word "pastor" ≈ "shepherd" from which we get the English word "pastor".
The modern Greek word "πρόβατα" (PRO-va-ta) ≈ "sheep".

Was it not the job of "shepherds" to watch "sheep"?

Matthew 26:31

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KJV: Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Greek: τοτε λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους παντες υμεις σκανδαλισθησεσθε εν εμοι εν τη νυκτι ταυτη γεγραπται γαρ παταξω τον ποιμενα και διασκορπισθησεται διασκορπισθησονται τα προβατα της ποιμνης

Latin: tunc dicit illis Iesus omnes vos scandalum patiemini in me in ista nocte scriptum est enim percutiam pastorem et dispergentur oves gregis

Tyndale: Then sayd Iesus vnto them: all ye shall be offended by me this night. For it is wrytten. I will smyte ye shepe herde and the shepe of ye flocke shalbe scattered abroode.

Genesis 46:32 And the men are shepherds, for their trade hath been to feed cattle; and they have brought their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have. [kjv]

οι δε ανδρες εισιν ποιμενες ανδρες γαρ κτηνοτροφοι ησαν και τα κτηνη και τους βοας και παντα τα αυτων αγειοχασιν [lxx]

From the above verse, a "shepherd" (same Greek word) it appears they could have been watching "cattle".

The ancient Greek word "βόας" (VO-as) ≈ "cattle, cows".
The ancient Greek word "βους" (vus) ≈ "cow, ox" and is cognate to the Old English word "cu" ≈ "cow" and the Latin word "bos" ≈ "cow".

The English word "bovine" is related to the Greek and Latin words.

Psalms 8:7 uses the words for "sheep", "cattle" (or "oxen"), and "beasts" of the field.

Genesis 46:32

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KJV: And the men are shepherds, for their trade hath been to feed cattle; and they have brought their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have.

Hebrew: והאנשים רעי צאן כי אנשי מקנה היו וצאנם ובקרם וכל אשר להם הביאו׃

Greek: οι δε ανδρες εισιν ποιμενες ανδρες γαρ κτηνοτροφοι ησαν και τα κτηνη και τους βοας και παντα τα αυτων αγειοχασιν

Psalms 8:7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; [kjv]

προβατα και βοας πασας ετι δε και τα κτηνη του πεδιου [lxx]

Psalms 8:7

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KJV: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

Hebrew: צנה ואלפים כלם וגם בהמות שדי׃

Greek: προβατα και βοας πασας ετι δε και τα κτηνη του πεδιου

Latin: cuncta posuisti sub pedibus eius oves et armenta omnia insuper et animalia agri

Genesis 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. [kjv]

ελαβεν δε βουτυρον και γαλα και το μοσχαριον ο εποιησεν και παρεθηκεν αυτοις και εφαγοσαν αυτος δε παρειστηκει αυτοις υπο το δενδρον [lxx]

The modern Greek word "βούτυρο" (VU-tee-ro) ≈ "butter" and comes from the modern Greek word "βους" (vus) ≈ "cow, ox" and the modern Greek word "τυρί" (tee-REE) ≈ "cheese".

Do you have a better (butter) word for "butter"? Or is that just a "marginal" joke?

The Greek word appears in Genesis 18:8 where Abraham, the first Jew, appears to offer the God a non kosher meal.

Genesis 18:8

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KJV: And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

Hebrew: ויקח חמאה וחלב ובן הבקר אשר עשה ויתן לפניהם והוא עמד עליהם תחת העץ ויאכלו׃

Greek: ελαβεν δε βουτυρον και γαλα και το μοσχαριον ο εποιησεν και παρεθηκεν αυτοις και εφαγοσαν αυτος δε παρειστηκει αυτοις υπο το δενδρον

Latin: tulit quoque butyrum et lac et vitulum quem coxerat et posuit coram eis ipse vero stabat iuxta eos sub arbore

Wycliffe: and he took botere, and mylk, and the calf which he hadde sode, and settide bifore hem; forsothe Abraham stood bisidis hem vndur the tre.

Luther: Und er trug auf Butter und Milch und von dem Kalbe, das er zubereitet hatte, und setzte es ihnen vor und trat vor sie unter dem Baum, und sie aßen.

The etymology of a word, from the Greek for "true word", is the history of the word and the meaning of the word and how it started and/or changed over time and from language to language.

A "folk etymology" is an etymology that sounds correct, or words that appear to be related, but, in reality, is not correct.

More: Folk etymology

Luke 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. [kjv]

δαπανησαντος δε αυτου παντα εγενετο λιμος ισχυρα κατα την χωραν εκεινην και αυτος ηρξατο υστερεισθαι [gnt]

… fames … [v]

The ancient Greek word "βουλιμία" (vu-lee-MEE-a) ≈ "ravenous hunger" is the source of the English word "bulimia" as in "bulimia nervosa", an eating disorder.

The modern Greek word "βους" (vus) ≈ "cow, ox".
The modern Greek word "λιμός" (lee-MOS) ≈ "famine, hunger".

The word is used in the story of the prodigal son.

The Latin word "fames" ≈ "famine" which is the source of the English word "famine".

Luke 15:14

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KJV: And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

Greek: δαπανησαντος δε αυτου παντα εγενετο λιμοςισχυρος ισχυρα κατα την χωραν εκεινην και αυτος ηρξατο υστερεισθαι

Latin: et postquam omnia consummasset facta est fames valida in regione illa et ipse coepit egere

Wycliffe: And aftir that he hadde endid alle thingis, a strong hungre was maad in that cuntre, and he bigan to haue nede.

Tyndale: And when he had spent all that he had ther rose a greate derth thorow out all yt same londe and he began to lacke.

Luther: Da er nun all das Seine verzehret hatte, ward eine große Teurung durch dasselbige ganze Land, und er fing an zu darben.

Alexander the Great had a famous house named "Bucephalus", a horse rode by Alexander into every battle he ever fought. The famous mosaic of Alexander and Bucephalus at the Battle of Issus was a Roman floor mosaic found and excavated at Pompeii.

The modern Greek word "Βουκεφάλας" (Vu-keh-FA-las) ≈ "Bucephalus" comes from the modern Greek word "βους" (vus) ≈ "cow, ox" and the modern Greek word "κεφαλή" (keh-fa-LEE) ≈ "head" and means, literally, "ox head", since the horse had a distinctive head shape.

The city of Bucephala (probably present day Jhelum, Pakistan) was founded by Alexander in memory of Bucephalus who died from wounds in Alexander's last battle.

Back to Bethlehem, meaning "house of bread" and the "lambs" being watched by the "shepherds" who would go to visit the "lamb of God".

We know from history that a major industry of Bethlehem, about 6 miles south-west of Jerusalem, was to provide sacrificial lambs for the temple industry in lambs for the passover and other feasts.

So it is very likely that the shepherds were watching lambs and sheep.

Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. [kjv]

συνηχθησαν τε οι αποστολοι και οι πρεσβυτεροι ιδειν περι του λογου τουτου [gnt]

… seniores … [v]

… eldre … [wy]

… Ältesten … [lu]

What about the Presbyterian part of the original question? Were any of the shepherds Presbyterians?

The ancient Greek word "πρεσβύτερος" ≈ "older (of two people), advanced in life, senior" and comes from "πρέσβυς" ≈ "elderly, aged".

The Latin word "seniores" ≈ "seniors, elders".
The German word "alt" ≈ "old" are related words.
The modern Greek word "πρεσβύτερη" (preh-SVEE-teh-ree) ≈ "elder, senior".

Acts 15:6

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KJV: And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Greek: συνηχθησαν δε τε οι αποστολοι και οι πρεσβυτεροι ιδειν περι του λογου τουτου

Latin: conveneruntque apostoli et seniores videre de verbo hoc

Wycliffe: And the apostlis and eldre men camen togidre, to se of`this word.

Luther: Aber die Apostel und die Ältesten kamen zusammen, diese Rede zu besehen.

The modern Greek word "γερών" (y-RON) ≈ "old man" appears once, in the following verse in John 3:4, and is the root of the English word "gerontology" as the study of older people.

The PIE (Proto Indo-European) root is seen in the Sanskrit word "जरत्" (jaran) ≈ "old man".

The Latin Vulgate uses the Latin word "senex" ≈ "old man" from which comes the English word "senile" and other words such as "senator" (which may or may not go together with "senile").

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [kjv]

λεγει προς αυτον ο νικοδημος πως δυναται ανθρωπος γεννηθηναι γερων ων μη δυναται εις την κοιλιαν της μητρος αυτου δευτερον εισελθειν και γεννηθηναι [gnt]

… nasci … senex … [v]

John 3:4

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KJV: Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Greek: λεγει προς αυτον ο νικοδημος πως δυναται ανθρωπος γεννηθηναι γερων ων μη δυναται εις την κοιλιαν της μητρος αυτου δευτερον εισελθειν και γεννηθηναι

Latin: dicit ad eum Nicodemus quomodo potest homo nasci cum senex sit numquid potest in ventrem matris suae iterato introire et nasci

Wessex: Þa cwaeð Nichodemus to hym. hwu mayg man beon eft akenned þanne he beoð eald. Cwest þu. mag he eft cuman on hys moder innoðe & beon eft akenned.

Wycliffe: Nychodeme seide to hym, Hou may a man be borun, whanne he is eeld? whether he may entre ayen in to his modris wombe, and be borun ayen?

Tyndale: Nicodemus sayde vnto him: how can a man be boren when he is olde? can he enter into his moders wombe and be boren agayne?

Luther: Nikodemus spricht zu ihm: Wie kann ein Mensch geboren werden, wenn er alt ist? Kann er auch wiederum in seiner Mutter Leib gehen und geboren werden?

The older root meaning of presbyterian is from the modern Greek word "πρέσβυς" (PREH-svees) ≈ "aged, elder" is that of "one who leads cattle" from "πρεσ" as "before" and "βυς" as "cattle".

Apparently, one could get started at an early age watching smaller animals such as sheep (Joseph, David, etc.) and then at a later (older) age watching
bigger animals such as cattle.

Job 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. [kjv]

Arcturus, which means "guardian of the bear", is a star in the constellation Boötes. Arcturus is the brightest star next to "Ursa Major" which is the "Great Bear".

The ancient Greek word "βοώτης" ≈ "herdsman" and is related to the English word "Presbyterian" as an "elder" as the older herdsman watched the cows while the younger ones watched the sheep.

More: Bears

The related Sanskrit word "पुरोगव" (purogava) ≈ "leader" comes from "puras" meaning "in front" and "gava" meaning "cattle" .

Note: The hard "g" sound is related to the hard "k" sound.

So the tongue-in-cheek answer is that there were probably no Presbyterians watching the sheep at Bethlehem because they were elsewhere watching the cattle.

A Presbyterian would probably point out that since they can do the more difficult job of watching and leading cattle, they could better do the less demanding job of watching and leading sheep.

Note that the English words "coward" and "cower" are not related to each other and do not appear to be related to "cow".

Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. [kjv]

… pastores … custodientes vigilias … gregem … [v]

Luke 2:8

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KJV: And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Luke 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. [kjv]

Luke 2:9

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KJV: And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

Greek: και ιδου αγγελος κυριου επεστη αυτοις και δοξα κυριου περιελαμψεν αυτους και εφοβηθησαν φοβον μεγαν

Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. [kjv]

και ειπεν αυτοις ο αγγελος μη φοβεισθε ιδου γαρ ευαγγελιζομαι υμιν χαραν μεγαλην ητις εσται παντι τω λαω [gnt]

… angelus … timere … evangelizo … gaudium … omni populo [v]

Luke 2:10

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KJV: And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Greek: και ειπεν αυτοις ο αγγελος μη φοβεισθε ιδου γαρ ευαγγελιζομαι υμιν χαραν μεγαλην ητις εσται παντι τω λαω

Latin: et dixit illis angelus nolite timere ecce enim evangelizo vobis gaudium magnum quod erit omni populo

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. [kjv]

Luke 2:11

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KJV: For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Greek: οτι ετεχθη υμιν σημερον σωτηρ ος εστιν χριστος κυριος εν πολει δαβιδ δαυιδ

Luke 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. [kjv]

και τουτο υμιν σημειον ευρησετε βρεφος εσπαργανωμενον και κειμενον εν φατνη [gnt]

Luke 2:12

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KJV: And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

Greek: και τουτο υμιν το σημειον ευρησετε βρεφος εσπαργανωμενον και κειμενον εν τη φατνη

Luke 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, [kjv]

Luke 2:13

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KJV: And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

Greek: και εξαιφνης εγενετο συν τω αγγελω πληθος στρατιας ουρανιου αινουντων τον θεον και λεγοντων

Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. [kjv]

δοξα εν υψιστοις θεω και επι γης ειρηνη εν ανθρωποις ευδοκιας [gnt]

The Greek for "glory" is that of "opinion" or "expectation".
The Greek for "good will" is that of "good opinion" or "good expectation".

Paraphrase: Expectation/opinion in the highest (from earth) to God and on the earth peace in men of a good expectation.

God has a high opinion and a good expectation that men will be peaceful on earth. To support the KJV (King James Version) translation, the second Greek "in" is to the English "towards". To support the Greek "in", translations like the NIV (New International Version) use the following.

NIV: Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.

More: Song: Hark the herald angels sing

Luke 2:15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. [kjv]

και εγενετο ως απηλθον απ αυτων εις τον ουρανον οι αγγελοι οι ποιμενες ελαλουν προς αλληλους διελθωμεν δη εως βηθλεεμ και ιδωμεν το ρημα τουτο το γεγονος ο ο κυριος εγνωρισεν ημιν [gnt]

[sheep leaving the flock, shepherds leaving the flock]

Luke 2:15

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KJV: And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

Greek: και εγενετο ως απηλθον απ αυτων εις τον ουρανον οι αγγελοι και οι ανθρωποι οι ποιμενες ειπον ελαλουν προς αλληλους διελθωμεν δη εως βηθλεεμ και ιδωμεν το ρημα τουτο το γεγονος ο ο κυριος εγνωρισεν ημιν

Luke 2:16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. [kjv]

και ηλθαν σπευσαντες και ανευραν την τε μαριαμ και τον ιωσηφ και το βρεφος κειμενον εν τη φατνη [gnt]

Luke 2:16

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KJV: And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

Greek: και ηλθον ηλθαν σπευσαντες και ανευρον ανευραν την τε μαριαμ και τον ιωσηφ και το βρεφος κειμενον εν τη φατνη

Luke 2:17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. [kjv]

ιδοντες δε εγνωρισαν περι του ρηματος του λαληθεντος αυτοις περι του παιδιου τουτου [gnt]

Luke 2:17

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KJV: And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

Greek: ιδοντες δε διεγνωρισαν εγνωρισαν περι του ρηματος του λαληθεντος αυτοις περι του παιδιου τουτου

Luke 2:18 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. [kjv]

και παντες οι ακουσαντες εθαυμασαν περι των λαληθεντων υπο των ποιμενων προς αυτους [gnt]

Luke 2:18

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KJV: And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.

Greek: και παντες οι ακουσαντες εθαυμασαν περι των λαληθεντων υπο των ποιμενων προς αυτους

Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. [kjv]

η δε μαρια παντα συνετηρει τα ρηματα ταυτα συμβαλλουσα εν τη καρδια αυτης [gnt]

Luke 2:19

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KJV: But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.

Greek: η δε μαριαμ μαρια παντα συνετηρει τα ρηματα ταυτα συμβαλλουσα εν τη καρδια αυτης

Luke 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. [kjv]

και υπεστρεψαν οι ποιμενες δοξαζοντες και αινουντες τον θεον επι πασιν οις ηκουσαν και ειδον καθως ελαληθη προς αυτους [gnt]

Luke 2:20

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KJV: And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

Greek: και επεστρεψαν υπεστρεψαν οι ποιμενες δοξαζοντες και αινουντες τον θεον επι πασιν οις ηκουσαν και ειδον καθως ελαληθη προς αυτους