Send
Close Add comments:
(status displays here)
Got it! This site "creationpie.com" uses cookies. You consent to this by clicking on "Got it!" or by continuing to use this website. Note: This appears on each machine/browser from which this site is accessed.
Evil training is toilsome work: no pain no gain
1. Evil training is toilsome work: no pain no gain
Many have heard the exercise saying "
No pain. No gain.". This saying is deceptive as "
fatigue" is good for training but "
pain" is not good.
The Greek word for "
work" or "
toil" appears to be the origin of a Greek word often translated as "
evil" in the
KJV (King James Version). The meaning appears to have shifted from just "
work" to "
work" afflicted by someone else to that someone else being "
evil" to the modern meaning of "
pain". In many cases the "
evil" person inflicting "
work" or "
pain" on others has to do with laziness and/or greed and/or pleasure-seeking of that "
evil" person.
2. No pain no gain
Many have heard the exercise saying "
No pain. No gain.". This saying is deceptive as "
fatigue" is good for training but "
pain" is not good.
Pain is the body's way of saying that something is wrong.
Fatigue is the body's way of saying that something is tiring.
3. History
The phrase "
No pain. No gain." became well known in 1982 with a series of exercise workout videos by Jane Fonda.
Wikipedia has a history of similar comments in meaning made from the times of ancient Greece, but without the catchy English jargon.
4. No pain no gain
In a reference to Benjamin Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanac in 1758 (in The Way to Wealth) one finds the following. The word "
industry" here refers to keeping active as in exercise.
Industry need not wish, as Poor Richard says, and he that lives upon hope will die fasting. There are no gains, without pains...
Franklin thought that 45 minutes of exercise a day was good for everyone.
Wikipedia. (as of 2022-04-12)
5. Feel the burn
Another phrase from the series of workout videos by Jane Fonda in 1982 was "
Feel the burn" referring to the muscles becoming warm due to exercise. No, not "
Bernie Sanders" (part of a campaign slogan in 2020).
Many years ago at a Bible study someone made the comment that many Christians do not think they will end up burning in hell. Thinking quickly, I commented that "
that is until they meet their match" (i.e., as a match used to start a fire).
6. Exercise
In an exercise sense, fatigue is good as the body will usually build back stronger (given rest, nutrition, sleep, etc.) while pain indicates that something is wrong or damaged and if that something is continued, more damage will result.
7. Exercise
Here is a "
whisper chain" (from a t-shirt I saw in a store).
Exercise
Ex-er-cise
Egs-ar-cites
Eggs are sides
Eggs are sides for bacon, bacon, bacon!!
8. Luke
9. Luke 9:24
KJV: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Greek: ος γαρ αν θελη την ψυχην αυτου σωσαι απολεσει αυτην ος δ αν απολεση την ψυχην αυτου ενεκεν εμου ουτος σωσει αυτην
10. Luke 9:25
KJV: For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
Greek: τι γαρ ωφελειται ανθρωπος κερδησας τον κοσμον ολον εαυτον δε απολεσας η ζημιωθεις
11. Paul
12. 2 Timothy 2:10
KJV: Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Greek: δια τουτο παντα υπομενω δια τους εκλεκτους ινα και αυτοι σωτηριας τυχωσιν της εν χριστω ιησου μετα δοξης αιωνιου
13. 2 Timothy 2:11
KJV: It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
Greek: πιστος ο λογος ει γαρ συναπεθανομεν και συζησομεν
14. 2 Timothy 2:12
KJV: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Greek: ει υπομενομεν και συμβασιλευσομεν ει αρνουμεθα αρνησομεθα κακεινος αρνησεται ημας
15. Hebrews
Hebrews chapters 11 and 12 are about this topic of "No pain. No gain.".
Let us return to the Greek words for "work", "toil", "pain", etc.
16. Greek
17. Complaint
Notice:
The deadline for complaints was yesterday.
Wine and cheese party:
Would you like some whine with your cheese?
The modern Greek word
"παράπονο" (pa-RA-po-no) ≈ "whine, complaint" and which means, literally, something "
beyond the pain".
18. Burdensome evils
19. Verses
In the GNT, this Greek word is translated as "pain" and not as work or toil which is usually more like "fatigue" than "pain".
Consider the following verses that use this Greek word. Might each verse make more or less sense if "toil" or "work" is substituted for "pain"?
20. Revelation 16:10
Revelation 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, [kjv]
και ο πεμπτος εξεχεεν την φιαλην αυτου επι τον θρονον του θηριου και εγενετο η βασιλεια αυτου εσκοτωμενη και εμασωντο τας γλωσσας αυτων εκ του πονου [gnt]
21. Revelation 16:10
KJV: And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Greek: και ο πεμπτος αγγελος εξεχεεν την φιαλην αυτου επι τον θρονον του θηριου και εγενετο η βασιλεια αυτου εσκοτωμενη και εμασσωντο εμασωντο τας γλωσσας αυτων εκ του πονου
Latin: et quintus effudit fialam suam super sedem bestiae et factum est regnum eius tenebrosum et conmanducaverunt linguas suas prae dolore
Wycliffe: And the fifte aungel schedde out his viol on the seete of the beeste, and his kyngdom was maad derk; and thei eten togidere her tungis for sorewe,
Tyndale: And the fifte angell poured out his vyall apon the seate of the beste and his kyngdome wexed derke and they gnewe their tonges for sorowe
Luther: Und der fünfte Engel goß aus seine Schale auf den Stuhl des Tieres. Und sein Reich ward verfinstert; und sie zerbissen ihre Zungen vor Schmerzen
Spanish: Y el quintoángel derramó su copa sobre la silla de la bestia; y su reino se cubrió de tinieblas, y se mordían sus lenguas de dolor;
Portuguese: Quando o quinto anjo derramou a sua taça sobre o trono da Besta, o seu reino cobriu-se de trevas, os homens mordiam de dor as suas línguas
22. Strongs - pain
- *G4192 *4 πόνος (pon'-os) : from the base of G3993; toil, i.e. (by implication) anguish:--pain.
- πονον
- Colossians 4:13 For I bear him record, that he hath ...
- πονου
- Revelation 16:10 ... their tongues for pain,
- πονων
- Revelation 16:11 ... of heaven because of their pains and their sores, ...
- πονος
- Revelation 21:4 ... neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
23. Strongs - pain
 |
Words: πονον πονος πονου πονων
|
24. Revelation 16:11
Revelation 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. [kjv]
και εβλασφημησαν τον θεον του ουρανου εκ των πονων αυτων και εκ των ελκων αυτων και ου μετενοησαν εκ των εργων αυτων [gnt]
25. Revelation 16:11
KJV: And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Greek: και εβλασφημησαν τον θεον του ουρανου εκ των πονων αυτων και εκ των ελκων αυτων και ου μετενοησαν εκ των εργων αυτων
Latin: et blasphemaverunt Deum caeli prae doloribus et vulneribus suis et non egerunt paenitentiam ex operibus suis
Spanish: y blasfemaron contra el Dios del cielo por causa de sus dolores, y por sus plagas, y no se arrepintieron de sus obras.
Portuguese: e blasfemavam contra o Deus do céu por causa do sofrimento e das chagas. Mas não se arrependeram das suas más acções.
26. Greek
27. Strongs - sores
- *G1668 *3 ἕλκος (hel'-kos) : probably from G1670; an ulcer (as if drawn together):--sore.
- ελκη
- Luke 16:21 ... came and licked his sores.
- ελκος
- Revelation 16:2 ... a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which ...
- ελκων
- Revelation 16:11 ... pains and their sores, and repented not ...
- *G1669 *1 ἡλκόω (hel-ko'-o) : from G1668 ἕλκος; to cause to ulcerate, i.e. (passively) be ulcerous:--full of sores.
- ειλκωμενος
- Luke 16:20 ... at his gate, full of sores,
28. Strongs - sores
 |
Words: ειλκωμενος ελκη ελκος ελκων
|
29. Drawing on wounds
30. John 12:32
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. [kjv]
καγω αν υψωθω εκ της γης παντας ελκυσω προς εμαυτον [gnt]
31. John 12:32
KJV: And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Greek: καγω εαν αν υψωθω εκ της γης παντας ελκυσω προς εμαυτον
Latin: et ego si exaltatus fuero a terra omnia traham ad me ipsum
Wessex: & gyf ic byo up ahafan fram eorðan. ic teo ealle þyng to me sylfum.
Wycliffe: And if Y schal be enhaunsid fro the erthe, Y schal drawe alle thingis to my silf.
Tyndale: And I yf I were lifte vp from the erthe will drawe all men vnto me.
Luther: Und ich, wenn ich erhöhet werde von der Erde, so will ich sie alle zu mir ziehen.
Spanish: Y yo, si fuere levantado de la tierra, a todos atraeré a mí mismo.
Portuguese: E Eu, quando for erguido da terra, atrairei todos a mim. »
32. Strongs - draw
- *G1670 *8 ἑλκύω (hel-koo'-o) : or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively):--draw. Compare G1667.
- ειλκυσεν *2
- John 18:10 ... Peter having a sword drew it, and smote ...
- John 21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land ...
- ελκυση
- John 6:44 ... the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I ...
- ελκυσω
- John 12:32 ... I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
- ελκυσαι
- John 21:6 ... they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
- ειλκυσαν
- Acts 16:19 ... Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
- ειλκον
- Acts 21:30 ... and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: ...
- ελκουσιν
- James 2:6 ... oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
33. Strongs - draw
 |
Words: ειλκον ειλκυσαν ειλκυσεν=2 ελκουσιν ελκυσαι ελκυση ελκυσω
|
34. No pain no gain
In the next verse, might the meaning be of "
no more toil" instead of "
no more pain" for those who have trouble distinguishing between "
fatigue" and "
pain". No pain, no gain!
35. Revelation 21:4
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. [kjv]
και εξαλειψει παν δακρυον εκ των οφθαλμων αυτων και ο θανατος ουκ εσται ετι ουτε πενθος ουτε κραυγη ουτε πονος ουκ εσται ετι τα πρωτα απηλθαν [gnt]
36. Revelation 21:4
KJV: And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Greek: και εξαλειψει ο θεος παν δακρυον απο εκ των οφθαλμων αυτων και ο θανατος ουκ εσται ετι ουτε πενθος ουτε κραυγη ουτε πονος ουκ εσται ετι οτι τα πρωτα απηλθον απηλθαν
37. The curse
Might the "
toil" and "
pain" be related to the "
curse" in Genesis 3:16-19?
 |
Details are left as a future topic.
|
38. Zeal for pain
Why in the next verse might one Greek version have "
zeal" and the other "
pain"?
He hath great "zeal" for you.
He hath great "toil" for you.
He hath great "work" for you.
He hath great "pain" for you.
He hath great "concern" for you. This translation may come from sliding the meaning of "pain" (e.g., as an idiom).
The Greek word "
zeal" has to do with two people competing for the same goal.
39. Colossians 4:13
Colossians 4:13 For I bear him record, that he hath a great zeal for you, and them that are in Laodicea, and them in Hierapolis. [kjv]
μαρτυρω γαρ αυτω οτι εχει πολυν πονον υπερ υμων και των εν λαοδικεια και των εν ιερα πολει [gnt]
40. Colossians 4:13
KJV: For I bear him record, that he hath a great zeal for you, and them that are in Laodicea, and them in Hierapolis.
Greek: μαρτυρω γαρ αυτω οτι εχει ζηλον πολυν πονον υπερ υμων και των εν λαοδικεια και των εν ιεραπολει ιερα πολει
41. LXX
Let us look at some verses using this word for "
work" or "
toil" (or "
pain") in the
LXX (Septuagint).
Keep in mind that this word for "
work" or "
toil" was the origin of the Greek word for "
affliction" that became often translated as "
evil" in the
GNT.
42. Numbers 23:21
Numbers 23:21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them. [kjv]
ουκ εσται μοχθος εν ιακωβ ουδε οφθησεται πονος εν ισραηλ κυριος ο θεος αυτου μετ αυτου τα ενδοξα αρχοντων εν αυτω [lxx]
43. Numbers 23:21
KJV: He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
Hebrew: לא הביט און ביעקב ולא ראה עמל בישראל יהוה אלהיו עמו ותרועת מלך בו׃
Greek: ουκ εσται μοχθος εν ιακωβ ουδε οφθησεται πονος εν ισραηλ κυριος ο θεος αυτου μετ αυτου τα ενδοξα αρχοντων εν αυτω
Brenton: There shall not be trouble in Jacob, neither shall sorrow be seen in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, the glories of rulers are in him.
Latin: non est idolum in Iacob nec videtur simulacrum in Israhel Dominus Deus eius cum eo est et clangor victoriae regis in illo
Wycliffe: Noon idol is in Jacob, nethir symylacre is seyn in Israel; his Lord God is with hym, and the sown of victorie of kyng is in hym.
Luther: Man siehet keine Mühe in Jakob und keine Arbeit in Israel. Der Herr, sein Gott; ist bei ihm, und das Trommeten des Königs unter ihm.
44. German
Luther uses the German word
"Arbeit" ≈ "work" which is related to the English word for "
robot".
45. Job 4:5
Job 4:5 But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled. [kjv]
νυν δε ηκει επι σε πονος και ηψατο σου συ δε εσπουδασας [lxx]
46. Job 4:5
KJV: But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
Hebrew: כי עתה תבוא אליך ותלא תגע עדיך ותבהל׃
Greek: νυν δε ηκει επι σε πονος και ηψατο σου συ δε εσπουδασας
Brenton: Yet now that pain has come upon you, and touched you, you are troubled.
47. Job 5:6
Job 5:6 Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground; [kjv]
ου γαρ μη εξελθη εκ της γης κοπος ουδε εξ ορεων αναβλαστησει πονος [lxx]
48. Job 5:6
KJV: Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
Hebrew: כי לא יצא מעפר און ומאדמה לא יצמח עמל׃
Greek: ου γαρ μη εξελθη εκ της γης κοπος ουδε εξ ορεων αναβλαστησει πονος
Brenton: For labour can’t by any means come out of the earth, nor shall trouble spring out of the mountains:
Luther: Denn Mühe aus der Erde nicht gehet, und Unglück aus dem Acker nicht wächset,
49. Hebrew parallelism
In the next few verses, keep in mind Hebrew parallelism where the same general idea can be conveyed in different words to reduce ambiguity.
50. Psalms 7:16
Psalms 7:16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate. [kjv]
επιστρεψει ο πονος αυτου εις κεφαλην αυτου και επι κορυφην αυτου η αδικια αυτου καταβησεται [lxx]
51. Psalms 7:16
KJV: His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.
Hebrew: ישוב עמלו בראשו ועל קדקדו חמסו ירד׃
Greek: επιστρεψει ο πονος αυτου εις κεφαλην αυτου και επι κορυφην αυτου η αδικια αυτου καταβησεται
Brenton: His trouble shall return on his own head, and his unrighteousness shall come down on his own crown.
52. Psalms 10:7
Psalms 10:7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity. [kjv]
ου αρας το στομα αυτου γεμει και πικριας και δολου υπο την γλωσσαν αυτου κοπος και πονος [lxx]
53. Psalms 10:7
KJV: His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.
Hebrew: אלה פיהו מלא ומרמות ותך תחת לשונו עמל ואון׃
Greek: ου αρας το στομα αυτου γεμει και πικριας και δολου υπο την γλωσσαν αυτου κοπος και πονος
54. Lifetimes
In the next verse, some creation organizations feel compelled to jump through hoops to justify this lifetime age of
70 or
80 that is different than the maximum of
120 is Genesis. Some change the lifetime in Genesis. This is to match the idea that every piece of text in the Bible must be consistent and without error.
 |
Details are left as a future topic.
|
55. Psalms 90:10
Psalms 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. [kjv]
αι ημεραι των ετων ημων εν αυτοις εβδομηκοντα ετη εαν δε εν δυναστειαις ογδοηκοντα ετη και το πλειον αυτων κοπος και πονος οτι επηλθεν πραυτης εφ ημας και παιδευθησομεθα [lxx]
56. Psalms 90:10
KJV: The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
Hebrew: ימי שנותינו בהם שבעים שנה ואם בגבורת שמונים שנה ורהבם עמל ואון כי גז חיש ונעפה׃
Greek: αι ημεραι των ετων ημων εν αυτοις εβδομηκοντα ετη εαν δε εν δυναστειαις ογδοηκοντα ετη και το πλειον αυτων κοπος και πονος οτι επηλθεν πραυτης εφ ημας και παιδευθησομεθα
57. Isaiah 49:4
Isaiah 49:4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. [kjv]
και εγω ειπα κενως εκοπιασα και εις ματαιον και εις ουδεν εδωκα την ισχυν μου δια τουτο η κρισις μου παρα κυριω και ο πονος μου εναντιον του θεου μου [lxx]
58. Isaiah 49:4
KJV: Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
Hebrew: ואני אמרתי לריק יגעתי לתהו והבל כחי כליתי אכן משפטי את יהוה ופעלתי את אלהי׃
Greek: και εγω ειπα κενως εκοπιασα και εις ματαιον και εις ουδεν εδωκα την ισχυν μου δια τουτο η κρισις μου παρα κυριω και ο πονος μου εναντιον του θεου μου
Brenton: Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have given my strength for vanity and for nothing: therefore is my judgement with the Lord, and my labour before my God.
Latin: et ego dixi in vacuum laboravi sine causa et vane fortitudinem meam consumpsi ergo iudicium meum cum Domino et opus meum cum Deo meo
Spanish: Entonces dije: En vano he trabajado; por demás y sin provecho he consumido mi fuerza; pero mi juicio está delante de Jehová, y mi recompensa con mi Dios.
59. Jeremiah 4:15
Jeremiah 4:15 For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim. [kjv]
διοτι φωνη αναγγελλοντος εκ δαν ηξει και ακουσθησεται πονος εξ ορους εφραιμ [lxx]
60. Jeremiah 4:15
KJV: For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.
Hebrew: כי קול מגיד מדן ומשמיע און מהר אפרים׃
Greek: διοτι φωνη αναγγελλοντος εκ δαν ηξει και ακουσθησεται πονος εξ ορους εφραιμ
Brenton: For a voice of one publishing from Dan shall come, and trouble out of mount Ephraim shall be heard of.
61. Jeremiah 14:18
Jeremiah 14:18 If I go forth into the field, then behold the slain with the sword! and if I enter into the city, then behold them that are sick with famine! yea, both the prophet and the priest go about into a land that they know not. [kjv]
εαν εξελθω εις το πεδιον και ιδου τραυματιαι μαχαιρας και εαν εισελθω εις την πολιν και ιδου πονος λιμου οτι ιερευς και προφητης επορευθησαν εις γην ην ουκ ηδεισαν [lxx]
62. Jeremiah 14:18
KJV: If I go forth into the field, then behold the slain with the sword! and if I enter into the city, then behold them that are sick with famine! yea, both the prophet and the priest go about into a land that they know not.
Hebrew: אם יצאתי השדה והנה חללי חרב ואם באתי העיר והנה תחלואי רעב כי גם נביא גם כהן סחרו אל ארץ ולא ידעו׃
Greek: εαν εξελθω εις το πεδιον και ιδου τραυματιαι μαχαιρας και εαν εισελθω εις την πολιν και ιδου πονος λιμου οτι ιερευς και προφητης επορευθησαν εις γην ην ουκ ηδεισαν
Brenton: If I go forth into the plain, then behold the slain by the sword! and if I enter into the city, then behold the distress of famine! for priest and prophet have gone to a land which they knew not.
63. End of page
Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. [kjv]
ος γαρ αν θελη την ψυχην αυτου σωσαι απολεσει αυτην ος δ αν απολεση την ψυχην αυτου ενεκεν εμου ουτος σωσει αυτην [gnt]
9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? [kjv]
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. [kjv]
2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [kjv]
2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [kjv]
The ancient Greek word "πόνος" ≈ "work, toil" and is cognate with the ancient Greek word "πένομαι" ≈ "to exert oneself".
