Genesis 1: A seed within itself, the chicken or the egg

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [kjv]

και ειπεν ο θεος βλαστησατω η γη βοτανην χορτου σπειρον σπερμα κατα γενος και καθ ομοιοτητα και ξυλον καρπιμον ποιουν καρπον ου το σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω κατα γενος επι της γης και εγενετο ουτως [lxx]

In general, the question, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" refers to a situation where there are two objects that each depend on the other and the problem is to determine which came first.
Somehow, the information for the egg needs to be within the chicken. This is a self-referential system.

In Genesis 1:11-12 we have an example of this with fruit, "whose seed is in itself". Modern self-replicating programs provide an example of this idea.

We will initially ignore some details but give the general idea first.

Situation #1: The chicken came first.

The chicken lays an egg.
The egg hatches and grows into a chicken.
The chicken lays an egg.
... and so on ...

Question #1: Where did the original chicken originate?

Situation #2: The egg came first.

The egg hatches and grows into a chicken.
The chicken lays an egg.
The egg hatches and grows into a chicken.
... and so on ...

Question #2 is the following. Where did the original egg originate?

Situation #3. The chicken and the egg originated at the same time.

Of course, this situation is a little more complex.

But which one is it? Or is there another possibility?

Here, we are just setting up the problem.

The chicken and egg problem is the problem of what came first, the chicken that laid the egg, or the egg that developed into a chicken.

This is an example of a self-referential problem since each part of the problem refers to the other part of the problem.

A Biblical version is as follows. Did Adam have a belly button?

Possible hypotheses:

The chicken came first, then the egg.
The egg came first, then the chicken.
They both evolved together, gradually, into their present form.
They were both created at the same time by a creator.
... and so on ...

Somehow, the information for the egg needs to be within the chicken. This is a self-referential system.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [kjv]

και ειπεν ο θεος βλαστησατω η γη βοτανην χορτου σπειρον σπερμα κατα γενος και καθ ομοιοτητα και ξυλον καρπιμον ποιουν καρπον ου το σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω κατα γενος επι της γης και εγενετο ουτως [lxx]

1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [kjv]

και εξηνεγκεν η γη βοτανην χορτου σπειρον σπερμα κατα γενος και καθ ομοιοτητα και ξυλον καρπιμον ποιουν καρπον ου το σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω κατα γενος επι της γης και ειδεν ο θεος οτι καλον [lxx]

Genesis 1:11

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KJV: And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Hebrew: ויאמר אלהים תדשא הארץ דשא עשב מזריע זרע עץ פרי עשה פרי למינו אשר זרעו בו על הארץ ויהי כן׃

Greek: και ειπεν ο θεος βλαστησατω η γη βοτανην χορτου σπειρον σπερμα κατα γενος και καθ ομοιοτητα και ξυλον καρπιμον ποιουν καρπον ου το σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω κατα γενος επι της γης και εγενετο ουτως

Genesis 1:12

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KJV: And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Hebrew: ותוצא הארץ דשא עשב מזריע זרע למינהו ועץ עשה פרי אשר זרעו בו למינהו וירא אלהים כי טוב׃

Greek: και εξηνεγκεν η γη βοτανην χορτου σπειρον σπερμα κατα γενος και καθ ομοιοτητα και ξυλον καρπιμον ποιουν καρπον ου το σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω κατα γενος επι της γης και ειδεν ο θεος οτι καλον

Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. [kjv]

και εγενετο εσπερα και εγενετο πρωι ημερα τριτη [lxx]

More: Genesis 1: Evening and morning

More: Genesis 1: Wedding your appetite on an observant Tuesday from a blah Monday

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Genesis 1:13

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KJV: And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Hebrew: ויהי ערב ויהי בקר יום שלישי׃

Greek: και εγενετο εσπερα και εγενετο πρωι ημερα τριτη

Latin: factumque est vespere et mane dies tertius

Wycliffe: And the euentid and morwetid was maad, the thridde dai.

Tyndale: and the of the evenynge and mornynge was made the thyrde daye.

Luther: Da ward aus Abend und Morgen der dritte Tag.

Slavonic: И бысть вечер, и бысть утро, день третий.

Russian: И был вечер, и было утро: день третий.

Spanish: Y fue la tarde y la mañana el día tercero.

The ancient Greek word "αὐτόματος" ≈ "self-willed, self-moving" and is the source of the English word "automatic" and comes from two Greek words.

The ancient Greek word "αὐτο" ≈ "self" (and is a pronoun for masculine "it" or "he").
The ancient Greek word "μένος" ≈ "mind" as in thinking.

The GNT (Greek New Testament) uses the word for "automatic" to refer to fruit growing automatically on trees and for automatic doors.

Mark 4:28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. [kjv]

αυτοματη η γη καρποφορει πρωτον χορτον ειτεν σταχυν πληρη σιτον εν τω σταχυι [gnt]

The earth bringeth forth fruit of herself - automatically. The ancient Greek word "αὐτόματος" ≈ "self-willed, self-moving" and is the source of the English word "automatic" and comes from two Greek words.

The ancient Greek word "αὐτο" ≈ "self" (and is a pronoun for masculine "it" or "he").
The ancient Greek word "μένος" ≈ "mind" as in thinking.

The GNT uses the word for "automatic" to refer to fruit growing automatically on trees and for automatic doors.

More: Stoics and Epicureans

Mark 4:28

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KJV: For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

Greek: αυτοματη γαρ η γη καρποφορει πρωτον χορτον ειτα ειτεν σταχυν ειτα ειτεν πληρη σιτον εν τω σταχυι

How exactly can a seed be within itself?

We can learn more about this by studying programs that write programs in general and, in particular, programs that output an exact copy of themselves.

(to be continued)