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Ephesians 3:18 : From lowest depth to highest height
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640


1. Pastors
Verse routeEphesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [kjv]
Verse routeεν αγαπη ερριζωμενοι και τεθεμελιωμενοι ινα εξισχυσητε καταλαβεσθαι συν πασιν τοις αγιοις τι το πλατος και μηκος και υψος και βαθος [gnt]

What are the four dimensions? They could be the following. This verse by Paul in Ephesians has had many explanations as to his intended meaning.

2. Ephesians 3:18 : From lowest depth to highest height
Verse routeEphesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [kjv]
Verse routeεν αγαπη ερριζωμενοι και τεθεμελιωμενοι ινα εξισχυσητε καταλαβεσθαι συν πασιν τοις αγιοις τι το πλατος και μηκος και υψος και βαθος [gnt]
Verse routelatitudolongitudosublimitasprofundum [v]
Verse routebreedelengthehiynessedepnesse… [wy]

Hyperspace
Are there "four" space dimensions? What is the difference between depth and height? Aristotle tried at length to verbalize the issues between abstract mathematics and observed reality in his works on metaphysics.
The ancient Greek word "πλατύς""wide, flat" and is related to the English word "flat".

Information sign More: Aristotle

3. Ephesians 3:18
 All 
KJV: May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Greek: εν αγαπη ερριζωμενοι και τεθεμελιωμενοι ινα εξισχυσητε καταλαβεσθαι συν πασιν τοις αγιοις τι το πλατος και μηκος και βαθος υψος και υψος βαθος
Latin: ut possitis conprehendere cum omnibus sanctis quae sit latitudo et longitudo et sublimitas et profundum
Wycliffe: moun comprehende with alle seyntis, which is the breede, and the lengthe, and the hiynesse, and the depnesse;

4. Metaphysics
The term "metaphysics" comes from a later catalog process whereby his writings about these topics were placed after his works on physics and became known as "metaphysics", literally, his works "after physics".

Information sign More: Have you ever met a prefix like this?

5. Abstraction and reality
Dimensions 0 to 3
After stating the non-reality of points, lines, and planes, which is pretty clear, Aristotle tries to verbalize the concept of volume and the substance that exists in "volume".

6. Substance
Necker Cube
Aristotle writes in his Metaphysics [1029a]: ... For if this is not substance, it baffles us to say what else is. … But when length and breadth and depth are taken away we see nothing left unless there is something that is bounded by these…

Paul appears to alludes to some of Aristotle's writings in Ephesians.
Verse routeEphesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [kjv]

Paul says there is more. It is the love of Jesus.

The Greek word used by Aristotle for what is in the volume is "ουσία" (u-SEE-a) ≈ "substance". The Greek word for "substance" is part of the early Church history in coming to agreement (and disagreement) on the "substance" of Christ.

Future topic Details are left as a future topic.

7. Ephesians 3:18

 All 
KJV: May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Greek: εν αγαπη ερριζωμενοι και τεθεμελιωμενοι ινα εξισχυσητε καταλαβεσθαι συν πασιν τοις αγιοις τι το πλατος και μηκος και βαθος υψος και υψος βαθος

8. Paul
Paul will not use the exact ancient Greek word "ουσία""substance" in Ephesians, but, like Philippians, will use the word within another word four times in Ephesians.

Verse routeEphesians 1:21 … principality, and power, and might, … [kjv]
Verse routeυπερανω πασης αρχης και εξουσιας και δυναμεως και κυριοτητος και παντος ονοματος ονομαζομενου ου μονον εν τω αιωνι τουτω αλλα και εν τω μελλοντι [gnt]
Verse route2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [kjv]
Verse routeεν αις ποτε περιεπατησατε κατα τον αιωνα του κοσμου τουτου κατα τον αρχοντα της εξουσιας του αερος του πνευματος του νυν ενεργουντος εν τοις υιοις της απειθειας [gnt]
Verse route3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, [kjv]
Verse routeινα γνωρισθη νυν ταις αρχαις και ταις εξουσιαις εν τοις επουρανιοις δια της εκκλησιας η πολυποικιλος σοφια του θεου [gnt]
Verse route6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. [kjv]
Verse routeοτι ουκ εστιν ημιν η παλη προς αιμα και σαρκα αλλα προς τας αρχας προς τας εξουσιας προς τους κοσμοκρατορας του σκοτους τουτου προς τα πνευματικα της πονηριας εν τοις επουρανιοις [gnt]


9. Ephesians 1:21
 All 
KJV: Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Greek: υπερανω πασης αρχης και εξουσιας και δυναμεως και κυριοτητος και παντος ονοματος ονομαζομενου ου μονον εν τω αιωνι τουτω αλλα και εν τω μελλοντι

10. Ephesians 2:2
 All 
KJV: Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Greek: εν αις ποτε περιεπατησατε κατα τον αιωνα του κοσμου τουτου κατα τον αρχοντα της εξουσιας του αερος του πνευματος του νυν ενεργουντος εν τοις υιοις της απειθειας

11. Ephesians 3:10
 All 
KJV: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Greek: ινα γνωρισθη νυν ταις αρχαις και ταις εξουσιαις εν τοις επουρανιοις δια της εκκλησιας η πολυποικιλος σοφια του θεου

12. Ephesians 6:12
 All 
KJV: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Greek: οτι ουκ εστιν ημιν η παλη προς αιμα και σαρκα αλλα προς τας αρχας προς τας εξουσιας προς τους κοσμοκρατορας του σκοτους του αιωνος τουτου προς τα πνευματικα της πονηριας εν τοις επουρανιοις

13. Strongs - authority

14. Usage - authority
*G1849 *102 ἐξουσία (ex-oo-see'-ah) : from G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, i.e. (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely, magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence:--authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.
Word usage per chapter Words: εξουσια=29 εξουσιαι εξουσιαις=3 εξουσιαν=56 εξουσιας=12 εξουσιων


15. Aristotle: Metaphysics
Aristotle continues.

English: But when length and breadth and depth are taken away we see nothing left unless there is something that is bounded by these; so that to those who consider the question thus matter alone must seem to be substance.
Greek: ἀλλὰ μὴν ἀφαιρουμένου μήκους καὶ πλάτους καὶ βάθους οὐδὲν ὁρῶμεν ὑπολειπόμενον, πλὴν εἴ τί ἐστι τὸ ὁριζόμενον ὑπὸ τούτων, ὥστε τὴν ὕλην ἀνάγκη φαίνεσθαι μόνην οὐσίαν οὕτω σκοπουμένοις. Aristotle: Metaphysics [1029a]
So when these dimensions are taken away, only what is bounded by these (abstract) limitations is there, matter which is substance.
Verse routeEphesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [kjv]


16. Love of Christ
Whenever Paul is writing to the Ephesians, or to Timothy (Bishop of Ephesus), he is speaking, in part, to a Greek culture filled with ideas of Aristotle and other philosophers. Paul tends to write to his intended audience.

So when Paul is writing about Christ and the love of Christ, he appears to be alluding to the ideas of Aristotle. The above is just one part that appears to be very relevant and expresses the ideas of Aristotle.

From Paul's point of view, there is something more than what is bounded (in reality) by length, breadth and depth. There is "height" - with all the allusions in verses before and after this verse.

17. Revelation 21:10 Dimensions
Verse routeRevelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, [kjv]
Verse routeκαι απηνεγκεν με εν πνευματι επι ορος μεγα και υψηλον και εδειξεν μοι την πολιν την αγιαν ιερουσαλημ καταβαινουσαν εκ του ουρανου απο του θεου [gnt]

In Aristotle, dimensions are provided with "depth" as the third dimension rather than "height".

In the Bible, such as in Revelation, in the new heaven and new earth, dimensions are given differently, using "height", and this is used in many places.

A few verses later, the measurements are given.

18. Revelation 21:10
 All 
KJV: And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Greek: και απηνεγκεν με εν πνευματι επ επι ορος μεγα και υψηλον και εδειξεν μοι την πολιν την μεγαλην την αγιαν ιερουσαλημ καταβαινουσαν εκ του ουρανου απο του θεου

19. Revelation 21:16 Dimensions
Verse routeRevelation 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι η πολις τετραγωνος κειται και το μηκος αυτης οσον το πλατος και εμετρησεν την πολιν τω καλαμω επι σταδιων δωδεκα χιλιαδων το μηκος και το πλατος και το υψος αυτης ισα εστιν [gnt]
Verse routelongitudolatitudolongitudolatitudoaltitudo … [v]

Whatever was reality on the earth - length, breadth and depth, is now the reality of the new earth - length, breadth and height.

20. Revelation 21:16
 All 
KJV: And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Greek: και η πολις τετραγωνος κειται και το μηκος αυτης τοσουτον εστιν οσον και το πλατος και εμετρησεν την πολιν τω καλαμω επι σταδιων δωδεκα χιλιαδων το μηκος και το πλατος και το υψος αυτης ισα εστιν
Latin: et civitas in quadro posita est et longitudo eius tanta est quanta et latitudo et mensus est civitatem de harundine per stadia duodecim milia longitudo et latitudo et altitudo eius aequalia sunt
Luther: Und die Stadt liegt viereckig, und ihre Länge ist so groß als die Breite. Und er maß die Stadt mit dem Rohr auf zwölftausend Feldwegs. Die Länge und die Breite und die Höhe der Stadt sind gleich.

21. Genesis 6:15 Height of the ark
Verse routeGenesis 6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι ουτως ποιησεις την κιβωτον τριακοσιων πηχεων το μηκος της κιβωτου και πεντηκοντα πηχεων το πλατος και τριακοντα πηχεων το υψος αυτης [lxx]
Verse routelongitudolatitudoaltitudo … [v]
Verse routeLängeWeiteHöhe. [lu]
Verse routelongitudanchuraaltura. [es]

Interestingly, the Ark of Noah, designed to enter into a "new " earth, also had dimensions of "height".

The German word "Weite" (vite) ≈ "wide, width" which sounds like the English "white" (i.e., in South Africa) appears to be the source of the English term "White Rhino" which, was not really "white" but "wide".

The Latin word "altitudo""height" and is the source of the English word "altitude".

The Spanish word "altura""height".

22. Genesis 6:15
   Genesis 6:15 
 All 
KJV: And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
Hebrew: וזה אשר תעשה אתה שלש מאות אמה ארך התבה חמשים אמה רחבה ושלשים אמה קומתה׃
Greek: και ουτως ποιησεις την κιβωτον τριακοσιων πηχεων το μηκος της κιβωτου και πεντηκοντα πηχεων το πλατος και τριακοντα πηχεων το υψος αυτης
Latin: et sic facies eam trecentorum cubitorum erit longitudo arcae quinquaginta cubitorum latitudo et triginta cubitorum altitudo illius
Luther: Und mache ihn also: Dreihundert Ellen sei die Länge, fünfzig Ellen die Weite und dreißig Ellen die Höhe.
Spanish: Y de esta manera la harás: De trescientos codos la longitud del arca, de cincuenta codos su anchura, y de treinta codos su altura.

23. Greek
Verse routeEphesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [kjv]

The modern Greek word "πλάτος" (PLA-tos) ≈ "width" and the modern Greek word "πλατύς" (pla-TEES) ≈ "wide, broad, flat". These words are related to the English word "plateau" and "plate" and "flat".

The modern Greek word "βάθος" (VA-thos) ≈ "depth" and is related to the English word "bath".

The modern Greek word "μήκος" (MEE-kos) ≈ "length" and the modern Greek word "μακρός" (ma-KROS) ≈ "long, far, distant".
These words are related to the Latin word "macer""meager, poor" and is related to the English words "emaciated" and "meager" and "macro" (as in a computer programming term).

24. Cartesian coordinates
Note that negative numbers in Europe did not come into use until the 1600's, though such numbers were sometimes used for direction (i.e., credits and debits in accounting).
René Descartes (French philosopher, mathematician and statistician) presented his "Cartesian coordinates" using just nonnegative numbers.

Information sign More: René Descartes

25. Rooted and grounded
Verse routeEphesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [kjv]
Verse routeκατοικησαι τον χριστον δια της πιστεως εν ταις καρδιαις υμων [gnt]
Verse routerootid … [wy]
Verse routeeingewurzelt … [lu]
Verse routeradicati … [v]

Note that the phrase translated "rooted and grounded in love" is in verse 17 in one GNT (Greek New Testament) version and in verse 18 in the other GNT version.

The modern Greek word for rooted is based on the modern Greek word "ρίζα" (REE-za) ≈ "root" which is cognate with the Latin word "radix""root" and the Latin word "ramus""branch" and the Old English word "wyrt""herb, plant".

26. Ephesians 3:17

 All 
KJV: That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Greek: κατοικησαι τον χριστον δια της πιστεως εν ταις καρδιαις υμων εν αγαπη ερριζωμενοι και τεθεμελιωμενοι
Latin: habitare Christum per fidem in cordibus vestris in caritate radicati et fundati
Wycliffe: that Crist dwelle bi feith in youre hertis; that ye rootid and groundid in charite,
Luther: und Christum zu wohnen durch den Glauben in euren Herzen, und durch die Liebe eingewurzelt und gegründet zu werden,

27. Romans 11:16 Roots
Verse routeRomans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. [kjv]
Verse routeει δε η απαρχη αγια και το φυραμα και ει η ριζα αγια και οι κλαδοι [gnt]
Verse routeradixrami [v]
Verse routerotebraunches … [ty]
Verse routewaurtsastos. [got]
Verse routeWurzelZweige … [lu]


28. Romans 11:16
   Romans 11:16 
 All 
KJV: For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Greek: ει δε η απαρχη αγια και το φυραμα και ει η ριζα αγια και οι κλαδοι
Latin: quod si delibatio sancta est et massa et si radix sancta et rami
Wycliffe: For if a litil part of that that is tastid be hooli, the hool gobet is hooli; and if the roote is hooli, also the braunchis.
Tyndale: For yf one pece be holy the whole heepe is holy. And yf the rote be holy the braunches are holy also.
Gothic: thandei ufarskafts weiha, jah daigs, jah jabai waurts weiha, jah astos.
Luther: Ist der Anbruch heilig, so ist auch der Teig heilig, und so die Wurzel heilig ist, so sind auch die Zweige heilig.

29. Ephesians 3:19
Verse routeEphesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. [kjv]
Verse routeγνωναι τε την υπερβαλλουσαν της γνωσεως αγαπην του χριστου ινα πληρωθητε εις παν το πληρωμα του θεου [gnt]


30. Ephesians 3:19
 All 
KJV: And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Greek: γνωναι τε την υπερβαλλουσαν της γνωσεως αγαπην του χριστου ινα πληρωθητε εις παν το πληρωμα του θεου

31. Proverbs 25:2-3
Verse routeProverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. [kjv]
Verse route25:3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable. [kjv]
Verse routeουρανος υψηλος γη δε βαθεια καρδια δε βασιλεως ανεξελεγκτος [lxx]

Proverbs has a saying that applies to problem solving in general. What might the following mean? Can "unsearchable" be equated with "infinite"?

32. Proverbs 25:2
 All 
KJV: It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Hebrew: כבד אלהים הסתר דבר וכבד מלכים חקר דבר׃
Greek: δοξα θεου κρυπτει λογον δοξα δε βασιλεως τιμα πραγματα

33. Proverbs 25:3
 All 
KJV: The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.
Hebrew: שמים לרום וארץ לעמק ולב מלכים אין חקר׃
Greek: ουρανος υψηλος γη δε βαθεια καρδια δε βασιλεως ανεξελεγκτος

34. Infinite things
Albert Einstein whose special and general relativity theories led to the idea of a four-dimensional universe had the following interesting quote about infinity.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein's (Physicist)

Information sign More: Albert Einstein

35. Isaiah 7:10-11 Isaiah and Ahaz
Verse routeIsaiah 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, [kjv]
Verse route7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. [kjv]
Verse routeαιτησαι σεαυτω σημειον παρα κυριου θεου σου εις βαθος η εις υψος [lxx]

Sun Dial
Isaiah has a message for King Ahaz and refers to both "depth" and "height". Ahaz does not want to use this opportunity.

The "sign" can be in the "depth" or the "height" - the two extremes. This "sign" is somewhat like a "wish" that can be granted.
The the "sign" or "wish" needs to be in the "depth" or the "height above" and not a meta-wish or wish about a wish (as in "I wish I could have three more wishes"). The "sign" is a change in 10 steps or degrees of the sun, whatever that means. A change of 5 degrees in today's sun dials would amount to adding 5 days a year making the years before about 360 days rather than 365 days.

Information sign More: Sundials and the long day of Hezekiah

36. Isaiah 7:10

   Isaiah 7:10 
 All 
KJV: Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
Hebrew: ויוסף יהוה דבר אל אחז לאמר׃
Greek: και προσεθετο κυριος λαλησαι τω αχαζ λεγων

37. Isaiah 7:11

   Isaiah 7:11 
 All 
KJV: Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Hebrew: שאל לך אות מעם יהוה אלהיך העמק שאלה או הגבה למעלה׃
Greek: αιτησαι σεαυτω σημειον παρα κυριου θεου σου εις βαθος η εις υψος

38. Romans 8: Battle cry separation for the love of Christ (part 2)
Verse routeRomans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [kjv]
Verse routeτις ημας χωρισει απο της αγαπης του χριστου θλιψις η στενοχωρια η διωγμος η λιμος η γυμνοτης η κινδυνος η μαχαιρα [gnt]

You will hear pastors who may have not analyzed this verse (and what follows) claim with boldness that "Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ". Not only is that claim misleading but it appears to be inaccurate.

This and following verses lists things, events, etc., that will not separate us from the "love of Christ". If these lists are not "collectively exhaustive", then there are things that are not said here that could separate us from the "love of Christ". Paul will cover some of these in subsequent chapters.

Information sign More: Romans 8: Battle cry separation for the love of Christ (part 2)

39. Romans 8:39
Verse routeRomans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. [kjv]
Verse routeουτε υψωμα ουτε βαθος ουτε τις κτισις ετερα δυνησεται ημας χωρισαι απο της αγαπης του θεου της εν χριστω ιησου τω κυριω ημων [gnt]

Parts above and belowHere we see, in English, Paul's repetition of the idea of "above" and "below" using "height" and "depth".

The "other" in Greek means "different" as in "other creature" that is a "different creature". What type of "creature" or "creation" might this "other creature" be?

Information sign More: Romans 8: Battle cry separation for the love of Christ (part 2)

40. Romans 8:39

   Romans 8:39 
 All 
KJV: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Greek: ουτε υψωμα ουτε βαθος ουτε τις κτισις ετερα δυνησεται ημας χωρισαι απο της αγαπης του θεου της εν χριστω ιησου τω κυριω ημων

41. Romans 8:39 Dimensions
Verse routeRomans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. [kjv]
Verse routeουτε υψωμα ουτε βαθος ουτε τις κτισις ετερα δυνησεται ημας χωρισαι απο της αγαπης του θεου της εν χριστω ιησου τω κυριω ημων [gnt]
Verse routenether heiyth, nether depnesse, nether noon othir creature may departe vs fro the charite of God, that is in`Crist Jhesu oure Lord. [wy]

Note the use of the not uncommon double negative by Wycliffe as the Middle English phrase "nether noon""neither none, neither no one" .

Information sign More: Do not no way use double negatives

42. Value and representation
There is a difference between a value and a representation of a value.

The value is an abstract idea. A representation is a way to make the value (in reality) concrete.

Plato in his philosophy takes the position that the abstract is more "real" than the concrete.

An abstract value has many possible concrete representations.

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43. Geometry, dimensions and hyperspaces
Verse routeIsaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι ελιγησεται ο ουρανος ως βιβλιον και παντα τα αστρα πεσειται ως φυλλα εξ αμπελου και ως πιπτει φυλλα απο συκης [lxx]

Geometrical shapes Paper folding and dimensions
Geometry is the study of space. Take a flat piece of paper that models a plane. To roll it up, you need another dimension. Another way to think about it is to "fold" rather than "roll".
There are many ways to represent dimensions. A dimension is a way of looking at something. Most people think of dimensions in geometry. Geometry is used here for a discussion on dimensions.

Information sign More: Geometry, dimensions and hyperspaces

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