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Active and passive actions
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640


1. Active and passive actions
Aristotle, in his work Sophistical Refutations, uses and example that contrasts active and passive situations. Interestingly, the passive situation corresponds to a word in the GNT (Greek New Testament) often translated as "suffer" (not the word "suffer" for "allow") with the implication of pain and suffering. This appears to come from the Latin Vulgate word used to translate the Greek word.

The Greek word appears to have no implication of good or bad or otherwise unless implied by the context of the situation.

2. Sophistic refutations
Book: On Sophistic Refutations
Aristotle wrote a book called On Sophistic Refutations in which he detailed the "false reasoning" used by Sophists (from the Greek word for "wisdom") who would use invalid logic to convince others of ideas to make money for themselves. In English, "sophistic" logic or "false reasoning" is "sophistry".
One of the many types of invalid logic detailed by Aristotle was "eristic" reasoning. Paul uses that word often but it is often translated, without the "bad logic" connection, as "strife"

Information sign More: Eristic reasoning creates strife and contention
Information sign More: Aristotle

3. Active and passive
Aristotle writes: (underlining added)

Greek: "Ἆρ´ ἔστι τι τῶν πάσχειν ποιεῖν τι;" "οὔ." ...

English: "Is any form of passivity a form of activity." "No". Loeb #400, p. 109.

The Sophistic argument Aristotle is showing (omitted) is interesting but not important here. Only the meanings of the words are important here.

4. Making poetry and peace
The ancient Greek word "ποιέω""make, do, cause" and is the source of the English word "poem" as in something that is made using words. Chess piecesMaking peace as an active (physical) endeavor of forcing peace (e.g., Pax Romana or Roman peace) or as a passive (mental) endeavor by "appeasing" others (making concessions, etc.) may not be a good idea.


Information sign More: Matthew 5:9 Making and appeasing peaceful peacemakers

5. Passive experience
The ancient Greek word "πάσχω""undergo, experience" as opposed to acting. A negative sense can be inferred from context - such as from another person or the law.

In the GNT, as translated by the KJV (King James Version) and influenced by the Latin Vulgate, the usual meaning is assumed to be that of a negative (painful) experience.

Is this always the case?

6. Passover
The Koine Greek word "πάσχα""passover" is from the Hebrew word "פסח" (pesakh) ≈ "Passover" where the English word "Passover" is a calque by William Tyndale (1494-1536) from the Hebrew.

It is not clear if the Koine Greek word "πάσχα""passover" had any effect on the later meaning of the similar ancient Greek word "πάσχω""undergo, experience" that is often translated by the KJV as "suffer" in a negative sense.

7. Strongs - suffer

8. Usage - suffer
Word usage per chapter Words: επαθεν=4 επαθετε=2 επαθον παθειν=12 παθη παθοντας παθοντος παθουσα παθων πασχει=2 πασχειν=4 πασχετε πασχετω πασχοιτε πασχομεν πασχοντες=2 πασχω πασχων=2 πεπονθασιν πεπονθεν


9. Matthew 19:14 Suffrage
Verse routeMatthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. [kjv]
Verse routeο δε ιησους ειπεν αφετε τα παιδια και μη κωλυετε αυτα ελθειν προς με των γαρ τοιουτων εστιν η βασιλεια των ουρανων [gnt]

DVD: Mary Poppins
The English word "suffer" means to "allow". The woman's suffrage movement was to "allow" women to vote, etc. This is one of the themes in the Disney movie Mary Poppins, released in August 1964 and set in 1910 England.
The Greek for "suffer" has to do with "letting go" as in "forgiving".

Information sign More: Matthew: Forgive the modern psychology bait and switch
Information sign More: Song: Jesus loves the little children

10. Allowing suffering
The English word "suffer", as used in the KJV, is often used to translate the Greek words for "allow" as in "forgive" or "forget" sin. These words are not of interest here.

Future topic Details are left as a future topic.


11. Verses
Let us look at some verses in the GNT that use these words involving passivity and activity.

The LXX (Septuagint) does not appear to use this word.

12. Jesus
Verse routeMatthew 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. [kjv]
Verse routeλεγω δε υμιν οτι ηλιας ηδη ηλθεν και ουκ επεγνωσαν αυτον αλλα εποιησαν εν αυτω οσα ηθελησαν ουτως και ο υιος του ανθρωπου μελλει πασχειν υπ αυτων [gnt]
Verse routefeceruntpassurus … [v]

This verse uses both of the words used by Aristotle for activity and passivity. For the passive word, other people are explicitly mentioned so the inference leans towards a negative experience rather than a positive or neutral experience.

The Latin word "facio""do" as in the English word "fashion".
The Latin word "patior""suffer, endure, allow, permit" and has as a primary meaning of a negative experience.

13. Matthew 17:12
 All 
KJV: But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Greek: λεγω δε υμιν οτι ηλιας ηδη ηλθεν και ουκ επεγνωσαν αυτον αλλ αλλα εποιησαν εν αυτω οσα ηθελησαν ουτως και ο υιος του ανθρωπου μελλει πασχειν υπ αυτων
Latin: dico autem vobis quia Helias iam venit et non cognoverunt eum sed fecerunt in eo quaecumque voluerunt sic et Filius hominis passurus est ab eis

14. Falling often
Verse routeMatthew 17:15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι λεγων κυριε ελεησον μου τον υιον οτι σεληνιαζεται και κακως εχει πολλακις γαρ πιπτει εις το πυρ και πολλακις εις το υδωρ [gnt]
Verse routepatitur … [v]

Does this text refer to a passive neutral experience, a passive negative experience, or something else?

The "vex" appears to be a passive reaction to something external that then has a physical result - falling into the water.

15. Matthew 17:15
 All 
KJV: Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
Greek: και λεγων κυριε ελεησον μου τον υιον οτι σεληνιαζεται και κακως @CZ(t=[ πασχει ])@CZ(t=[ εχει ]) πολλακις γαρ πιπτει εις το πυρ και πολλακις εις το υδωρ
Latin: Domine miserere filii mei quia lunaticus est et male patitur nam saepe cadit in ignem et crebro in aquam

16. Members
Verse route1 Corinthians 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι ειτε πασχει εν μελος συμπασχει παντα τα μελη ειτε δοξαζεται μελος συγχαιρει παντα τα μελη [gnt]
Verse routepatiturconpatiuntur … [v]

The second part of the verse has the members "honored". The first part appears to be a contrast (or else something similar that is repeated).

To not "honor" a member or members has two possibilities. Discuss: Which might be the better inference?

One meaning: Whatever the passive experience of one member, the other members experience the same passive experience. This is for everything good, everything bad and everything neutral.

17. 1 Corinthians 12:26
 All 
KJV: And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
Greek: και ειτε πασχει εν μελος συμπασχει παντα τα μελη ειτε δοξαζεται εν μελος συγχαιρει παντα τα μελη
Latin: et si quid patitur unum membrum conpatiuntur omnia membra sive gloriatur unum membrum congaudent omnia membra

18. Suffer for Christ
Verse routePhilippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; [kjv]
Verse routeοτι υμιν εχαρισθη το υπερ χριστου ου μονον το εις αυτον πιστευειν αλλα και το υπερ αυτου πασχειν [gnt]
Verse routecredatispatiamini [v]

Believing in Christ is a mental activity that should result in "works". What about the "suffer" part? Which might apply. From John 14 (omitted) the (people in the) world hate those who follow Jesus. Thus, a negative experience results. Is that the meaning of the verse written by Paul? Might Paul be saying that there are consequences for a belief?

19. Philippians 1:29
 All 
KJV: For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Greek: οτι υμιν εχαρισθη το υπερ χριστου ου μονον το εις αυτον πιστευειν αλλα και το υπερ αυτου πασχειν
Latin: quia vobis donatum est pro Christo non solum ut in eum credatis sed ut etiam pro illo patiamini

20. Suffer for the Kingdom of God
Verse route2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: [kjv]
Verse routeενδειγμα της δικαιας κρισεως του θεου εις το καταξιωθηναι υμας της βασιλειας του θεου υπερ ης και πασχετε [gnt]
Verse routepatimini [v]


21. 2 Thessalonians 1:5
 All 
KJV: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Greek: ενδειγμα της δικαιας κρισεως του θεου εις το καταξιωθηναι υμας της βασιλειας του θεου υπερ ης και πασχετε
Latin: in exemplum iusti iudicii Dei ut digni habeamini regno Dei pro quo et patimini

22. Suffering and doing in Peter
Verse route1 Peter 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. [kjv]
Verse routeκρειττον γαρ αγαθοποιουντας ει θελοι το θελημα του θεου πασχειν η κακοποιουντας [gnt]
Verse routepatimalefacientes [v]

The "doing" part of "evil doing", which means "bad doing", is the word for "doing" used by Aristotle for "activity". The "suffer" is the word used by Aristotle for "passivity".

In the KJV, the "for well doing" is inferred. Thus, one should not do evil or bad but that may have passive results (with a certain probability).

23. 1 Peter 3:17
   1 Peter 3:17 
 All 
KJV: For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
Greek: κρειττον γαρ αγαθοποιουντας ει θελει θελοι το θελημα του θεου πασχειν η κακοποιουντας
Latin: melius est enim benefacientes si velit voluntas Dei pati quam malefacientes

24. Suffering and doing in Peter
Verse route1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. [kjv]
Verse routeμη γαρ τις υμων πασχετω ως φονευς η κλεπτης η κακοποιος η ως αλλοτριεπισκοπος [gnt]
Verse routepatiaturmaledicus … [v]

Peter again uses the words for "passivity" and "activity" in the same verse.

How might the "suffer" distribute grammatically given the contrast of passivity and activity?

Peter appears to be talking somewhat tongue-in-cheek or sarcastically. That is, if you "do" the bad things, you will passively experience the results of those actions.

25. 1 Peter 4:15
   1 Peter 4:15 
 All 
KJV: But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Greek: μη γαρ τις υμων πασχετω ως φονευς η κλεπτης η κακοποιος η ως αλλοτριοεπισκοπος αλλοτριεπισκοπος
Latin: nemo enim vestrum patiatur quasi homicida aut fur aut maledicus aut alienorum appetitor

26. Suffering in Revelation
In Revelation, the Greek word for "suffer" is used in the letter to the church at Smyrna.

Verse routeRevelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. [kjv]
Verse routeμη μηδεν φοβου α μελλεις πασχειν ιδου μελλει ο διαβολος εξ υμων εις φυλακην ινα πειρασθητε και εχητε θλιψιν ημερων δεκα γινου πιστος αχρι θανατου και δωσω σοι τον στεφανον της ζωης [gnt]
Verse routepassurus … [v]

With other people involved, and given the context, this passive experience would appear to be a painful or bad experience.

27. Revelation 2:10
 All 
KJV: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Greek: μη μηδεν φοβου α μελλεις πασχειν ιδου μελλει βαλειν εξ υμων βαλλειν ο διαβολος εξ υμων εις φυλακην ινα πειρασθητε και εξετε εχητε θλιψιν ημερων δεκα γινου πιστος αχρι θανατου και δωσω σοι τον στεφανον της ζωης
Latin: nihil horum timeas quae passurus es ecce missurus est diabolus ex vobis in carcerem ut temptemini et habebitis tribulationem diebus decem esto fidelis usque ad mortem et dabo tibi coronam vitae

28. Review
The Greek word for "suffer" appears to have a passive connotation, in contrast to the Greek word for active "doing".

In many verses where the Greek word for "suffer" is used in the GNT, one can infer a bad or painful passive experience.

In some verses, however, is not as easy to infer a bad or painful passive experience.

29. End of page

by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640