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The flow of flooded rivers
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640
1. The flow of flooded rivers
This page looks at the words for floods and rivers in the GNT (Greek New Testament) and LXX (Septuagint) and Hebrew OT (Old Testament).

Part of the motivation is that of the parable of the houses built on sand and rock where the Greek word for "rivers" is often translated "floods".
2. More information
For more information, see the following:
3. Psalms 98:8
   Psalms 98:8 
 All 
KJV: Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together
Hebrew: נהרות ימחאו כף יחד הרים ירננו׃
Greek: ποταμοι κροτησουσιν χειρι επι το αυτο τα ορη αγαλλιασονται
Latin: flumina plaudent manu simul montes laudabunt
Geneva: Let the floods clap their hands, and let the mountaines reioyce together
Luther: Die Wasserströme frohlocken, und alle Berge seien fröhlich
Spanish: los ríos batan las manos; los montes todos hagan regocijo
Psalms 98 has in interesting verse about "rivers" that the KJV (King James Version) translates as "floods".

Why might the KJV translate this word for "rivers" as "floods"?

Let us investigate.
4. Hebrew
The Hebrew word "נהרות" (ne-ha-ro-wt) ≈ "the rivers". נהרות - the rivers
5. Strongs H5104
The German word "Wasserströmung" ≈ "current, stream of water".

The Spanish word "el rio" ≈ "the river" from the Latin word "rius" ≈ "river".
6. A flood of words
Many words for the English word "flood" go back to the PIE (Proto Indo-European) root "*PLEW" ≈ "flow". The original meaning of "flood" was that of a "river" or "water flowing" is some way. The meaning eventually changed to that of what today is a "flood". In some modern Bible translations, that change in meaning has not been taken into account.
7. Diagram
Linguistic diagram of flood
8. Going with the flow
The English word "flow" comes from the PIE root "*PLOW" ≈ "fly, flow, run" and has many related words.
9. Diagram
Linguistic diagram of flowThe English word "float" is related to "flood" and "flow".
10. Clapping hands
From the verse in Psalms 98:8 the following question arises.

Can a river "clap"? Does it require a "flood"?
11. Rivers and valleys
Hebrew poetry often rhymes by meaning in pairs (similarity, contrast, etc.).

Rivers are usually in valleys as contrasted with hills as in "hill and valley" or "hill and dale".
12. Over hill and over dale
The official Army song starts with "Over hill, over dale.as we hit the dusty trail", etc.

How is this song related to Christmas?

For more information, see the following: Song: Caissons go rolling along
13. Joachim Neander
A redundant place name is a name that, over time, has become redundant even though most people do not realize it.

At one time, the German "Tal" was pronounced as (English) "thal". A valley in Germany was named for Joachim Neander, who wrote many songs.

The valley was the "Neander-thal" valley which is a redundant place name. The term "Neanderthal Valley" means the "Neander valley valley"

Hundreds of years later, bones were discovered in the "Neander-thal" valley and the people from whom these bones came were named "Neanderthals".

Information sign More: Song: Praise to the Lord
Information sign More: Matthew 6:7-8 Vain repetitions of vain repetitions
14. Hills and valleys
A valley can only exist if there is a mountain or hill on either side.
15. House on sand
Here is the verse in Matthew about the house built on sand. The house built on the rock uses the same wording in Matthew. Here we are only interested in the word translated "flood" in the KJV.
16. Matthew 7:27
   Matthew 7:27 
 All 
KJV: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Greek: και κατεβη η βροχη και ηλθον ηλθαν οι ποταμοι και επνευσαν οι ανεμοι και προσεκοψαν τη οικια εκεινη και επεσεν και ην η πτωσις αυτης μεγαλη
Latin: et descendit pluvia et venerunt flumina et flaverunt venti et inruerunt in domum illam et cecidit et fuit ruina eius magna
Wessex: Þa rinde hyt. & þaer com flod. & bleowen windes. & aruren on þt hus. & þt hus feol. & his ryre waes mychel.
Wycliffe: And reyn cam doun, and floodis camen, and wyndis blewen, and thei hurliden ayen that hous; and it felde doun, and the fallyng doun therof was greet.
Tyndale: and abundauce of rayne descended and the fluddes came and ye wyndes blewe and beet vpon that housse and it fell and great was the fall of it.
Gothic: jah atiddja dalath rign jah qemun ahvos jah waiwoun windos jah bistugqun bi jainamma razna, jah gadraus, jah was drus is mikils.
Luther: Da nun ein Platzregen fiel, und kam ein Gewässer, und weheten die Winde und stießen an das Haus, da fiel es und tat einen großen Fall.
Slavonic: и сниде дождь, и приидоша реки, и возвеяша ветри, и опрошася храмине той, и падеся: и бе разрушение ея велие.
Russian: и пошел дождь, и разлились реки, и подули ветры, и налегли на дом тот; и он упал, и было падение его великое.
Spanish: y descendió lluvia, y vinieron ríos, y soplaron vientos, y dieron conímpetu contra aquella casa; y cayó; y fue grande su ruina.
17. Change in meaning
As we have seen above, at the time the older English versions were translated, the words "flod", "floodis", "fluddes", etc., had a primary meaning of "river" and later moved to the meaning of "flood" - perhaps with some Biblical influence of the book of Luke, etc., on the meaning of the word.

Luke uses both the Greek word for "flood" and the Greek word for "river".
18. Luke 6:48
   Luke 6:48 
 All 
KJV: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Greek: ομοιος εστιν ανθρωπω οικοδομουντι οικιαν ος εσκαψεν και εβαθυνεν και εθηκεν θεμελιον επι την πετραν πλημμυρας πλημμυρης δε γενομενης προσερρηξεν προσερηξεν ο ποταμος τη οικια εκεινη και ουκ ισχυσεν σαλευσαι αυτην τεθεμελιωτο γαρ επι την πετραν δια το καλως οικοδομησθαι αυτην
Wessex: He ys gelïc tymbriende men hys hus se dealf deopne & his grundwall ofer þanne stan asette. Soðlice ge-worðene flode hit fleow in-to þam huse. & hit ne mihte þt hus astyrian hit waes ofer þanne stan ge-trymed.
Wycliffe: He is lijk to a man that bildith an hous, that diggide deepe, and sette the foundement on a stoon. And whanne greet flood was maad, the flood was hurtlid to that hous, and it miyte not moue it, for it was foundid on a sad stoon.
Tyndale: He is like a man which bilt an housse: and digged depe and layde the foundacio on a rocke. Whe the waters arose the fludde bet apo that housse and coulde not move yt. For it was grounded apon a rocke.
Luther: Er ist gleich einem Menschen, der ein Haus bauete und grub tief und legte den Grund auf den Fels. Da aber Gewässer kam, da riß der Strom zum Hause zu und mochte es nicht bewegen; denn es war auf den Fels gegründet.
Notice how Wycliffe uses "flood" as a translation of both Greek "flood" and Greek "river".

The German word "der Strom" ≈ "large river, stream, flow".
19. Strongs
Note how Strongs includes a first definition of "flood" in "flood, river, stream, water" for the Greek word for "river" in G4215. Was this perhaps influenced by the translation already made in the KJV, etc.?
20. Jeremiah 46:7
   Jeremiah 46:7 
 All 
KJV: Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers?
Hebrew: מי זה כיאר יעלה כנהרות יתגעשו מימיו׃
Greek: τις ουτος ως ποταμος αναβησεται και ως ποταμοι κυμαινουσιν υδωρ
Latin: quis est iste qui quasi flumen ascendit et veluti fluviorum intumescunt gurgites eius
Wycliffe: Who is this, that stieth as a flood, and hise swelewis wexen greet as of floodis?
21. Psalms 78:16
   Psalms 78:16 
 All 
KJV: He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers.
Hebrew: ויוצא נוזלים מסלע ויורד כנהרות מים׃
Greek: και εξηγαγεν υδωρ εκ πετρας και κατηγαγεν ως ποταμους υδατα
Geneva: He brought floods also out of the stonie rocke; so that hee made the waters to descend like the riuers.
22. Peace like a flood
Somehow, the phrase "peace like a flood" does not sound quite like "peace like a river". How about "peace like a stream"?
23. Isaiah 66:12
   Isaiah 66:12 
 All 
KJV: For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Hebrew: כי כה אמר יהוה הנני נטה אליה כנהר שלום וכנחל שוטף כבוד גוים וינקתם על צד תנשאו ועל ברכים תשעשעו׃
Greek: οτι ταδε λεγει κυριος ιδου εγω εκκλινω εις αυτους ως ποταμος ειρηνης και ως χειμαρρους επικλυζων δοξαν εθνων τα παιδια αυτων επ ωμων αρθησονται και επι γονατων παρακληθησονται
Latin: quia haec dicit Dominus ecce ego declinabo super eam quasi fluvium pacis et quasi torrentem inundantem gloriam gentium quam sugetis ad ubera portabimini et super genua blandientur vobis
Wycliffe: For whi the Lord seith these thingis, Lo! Y schal bowe doun on it, as a flood of pees, and as a flowynge streem the glorie of hethene men, which ye schulen souke; ye schulen be borun at tetis, and on knees thei schulen speke plesauntly to you.
Geneva: For thus saith the Lord, Beholde, I will extend peace ouer her like a flood, and the glorie of the Gentiles like a flowing streame: then shall ye sucke, ye shall be borne vpon her sides, and be ioyfull vpon her knees.
24. Exodus 2:5
   Exodus 2:5 
 All 
KJV: And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it.
Hebrew: ותרד בת פרעה לרחץ על היאר ונערתיה הלכת על יד היאר ותרא את התבה בתוך הסוף ותשלח את אמתה ותקחה׃
Greek: κατεβη δε η θυγατηρ φαραω λουσασθαι επι τον ποταμον και αι αβραι αυτης παρεπορευοντο παρα τον ποταμον και ιδουσα την θιβιν εν τω ελει αποστειλασα την αβραν ανειλατο αυτην
Latin: ecce autem descendebat filia Pharaonis ut lavaretur in flumine et puellae eius gradiebantur per crepidinem alvei quae cum vidisset fiscellam in papyrione misit unam e famulis suis et adlatam
Wycliffe: Lo! forsothe the douytir of Farao cam doun to be waischun in the flood, and hir damysels walkiden bi the brenke of the flood. And whanne sche hadde seyn a leep in the`place of spier, sche sente oon of hir seruauntessis,
25. Summary
Many modern English translations use the word "rivers" in the above verse in Psalms 98:8.

In the parable of the houses built on rock and sand, the same words are used in the Greek - "rivers".

Most modern English translations use the word "floods" rather than "rivers". Perhaps they are influenced by Luke and the more literal elaboration. Perhaps they are used to tradition. Perhaps they have not made the change in the meaning of "flood" in English since the Middle Ages. it is not clear.
26. End of page
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640