James 3:7-8 Taming a deadly poison

Here is content related to the book of James.

Introduction to the book of James
James: Use of male-specific words
James 1: Interpretation and misinterpretation
James 1:19-20 Fast and slow to hear, to speak, to be angry
James 2 Selected logical issues
James 3:7-8 Taming a deadly poison (this page)
James 4: Selected logical issues
James 5: Selected logical issues
The Christian Hedonism fallacy

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: [kjv]

3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. [kjv]

Has "every" (unconditional) type of animal been "tamed"?
Is the "tongue" of every man (including the man Jesus) full of "deadly" "poison"?
Can one reflexively "tame" one's own "tongue"?

There is a difference between an unconditional and a conditional statement or claim. As in many places in James, James appears to be taking some specific instances and making an inappropriate generalization from which he then makes some conclusions to apply as a rule to everything.

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: [kjv]

πασα γαρ φυσις θηριων τε και πετεινων ερπετων τε και εναλιων δαμαζεται και δεδαμασται τη φυσει τη ανθρωπινη [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "πᾶς" ≈ "all, every, each". Any limits depend on context. The singular, as used here, means the whole or entire - not just part. Either meaning creates logical issues here.

James 3:7
Strong	Used	Unique	Word	Part of speech

The feminine here refers to the grammatical gender of the word translated as "kind".

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: [kjv]

πασα γαρ φυσις θηριων τε και πετεινων ερπετων τε και εναλιων δαμαζεται και δεδαμασται τη φυσει τη ανθρωπινη [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "δαμάζω" ≈ "tame, subdue, control, seduce, rape, kill".

Has "every" animal been "tamed" or "domesticated" or "subdued" or "controlled"? By definition, "wild" animals cannot be "tamed" nor "domesticated". Neither can they be "subdued" or "controlled" completely, and then only for a short time, and sometimes only by destroying them as in "kill".

Is James making a valid point?

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: [kjv]

πασα γαρ φυσις θηριων τε και πετεινων ερπετων τε και εναλιων δαμαζεται και δεδαμασται τη φυσει τη ανθρωπινη [gnt]

James 3:7
Strong	Used	Unique	Word	Part of speech

The ancient Greek word "δαμάζω" ≈ "tame, subdue, control, seduce, rape, kill" which is from the PIE (Proto Indo-European) root "*DEMH" ≈ "tame, domesticate".

The ancient Greek word "δαμάζω" ≈ "tame, subdue, control, seduce, rape, kill" which is from the PIE root "*DEMH" ≈ "tame, domesticate".

The Latin word "domo" ≈ "tame, break in, subdue, conquer" and is the source of the English word "domesticate".
The Spanish word "domar" ≈ "tame".
The Portuguese word "domar" ≈ "tame".
The Sanskrit word "दाम्यति" (damyati) ≈ "to tame".
The German word "zahm" ≈ "tame".
The Old English word "tam" ≈ "tame" which is the source of the English word "tame".

The modern Greek word "δαμάζω" (tha-MA-zo) ≈ "tame, subdue, control".

James 3:7

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KJV: For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

Greek: πασα γαρ φυσις θηριων τε και πετεινων ερπετων τε και εναλιων δαμαζεται και δεδαμασται τη φυσει τη ανθρωπινη

Some of the creatures mentioned by James bring to mind Paul and some of the same creatures.

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [kjv]

και ηλλαξαν την δοξαν του αφθαρτου θεου εν ομοιωματι εικονος φθαρτου ανθρωπου και πετεινων και τετραποδων και ερπετων [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "ἑρπετόν" ≈ "any animal that walks on four legs, creeping animal, reptile, snake" and is related to the Latin word "reptilis" ≈ "creeping" from which we get the English word "reptile". This Greek word is also related to the Latin word "serpens" ≈ "serpent, snake".

This Greek word could be interpreted as "creeping things" or "serpents" as is done in the GNT (Greek New Testament). The modern Greek word "ερπετών" (ehr-peh-TON) ≈ "reptiles"

More: Lower than the angels

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [kjv]

και ηλλαξαν την δοξαν του αφθαρτου θεου εν ομοιωματι εικονος φθαρτου ανθρωπου και πετεινων και τετραποδων και ερπετων [gnt]

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: [kjv]

πασα γαρ φυσις θηριων τε και πετεινων ερπετων τε και εναλιων δαμαζεται και δεδαμασται τη φυσει τη ανθρωπινη [gnt]

*G1150 *4 δαμάζω (dam-ad'-zo) : a variation of an obsolete primary of the same meaning; to tame:--tame.

Usage

All

δαμασαι *2

Mark 5:4 ... neither could any man tame him.
James 3:8 ... can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full ...

δαμαζεται

James 3:7 ... and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

δεδαμασται

James 3:7 ... and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

*G1150 *4 δαμάζω (dam-ad'-zo) : a variation of an obsolete primary of the same meaning; to tame:--tame.

Words: δαμαζεται δαμασαι=2 δεδαμασται

The ancient Greek word "δαμάζω" ≈ "tame, subdue, control, seduce, rape, kill".

The meaning has narrowed in the modern Greek word "δαμάζω" (tha-MA-zo) ≈ "tame, subdue, control".

This word is used 2 times by James and 1 time in Mark. It is used 2 times in the LXX (Septuagint), both times by Daniel in the same verse.

Mark 5:4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. [kjv]

δια το αυτον πολλακις πεδαις και αλυσεσιν δεδεσθαι και διεσπασθαι υπ αυτου τας αλυσεις και τας πεδας συντετριφθαι και ουδεις ισχυεν αυτον δαμασαι [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "δαμάζω" ≈ "tame, subdue, control, seduce, rape, kill".

The ancient Greek word "ἅλυσις" ≈ "chain, link in chain mail" and is related to the English word "waltz", through German, where the original Greek had a leading digamma with "f" or "v" sound that later disappeared.

More: Waltzing out of chains

Mark 5:4

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KJV: Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

Greek: δια το αυτον πολλακις πεδαις και αλυσεσιν δεδεσθαι και διεσπασθαι υπ αυτου τας αλυσεις και τας πεδας συντετριφθαι και ουδεις αυτον ισχυεν αυτον δαμασαι

Latin: quoniam saepe conpedibus et catenis vinctus disrupisset catenas et conpedes comminuisset et nemo poterat eum domare

Wycliffe: For ofte tymes he was boundun in stockis and chaynes, and he hadde broke the chaynes, and hadde broke the stockis to smale gobetis, and no man myyte make hym tame.

Tyndale: because that when he was often bounde wt fetters and cheynes he plucked ye chaynes asundre and brake the fetters in peaces. Nether coulde eny man tame him.

Gothic: unte is ufta eisarnam bi fotuns gabuganaim jah naudibandjom eisarneinaim gabundans was jah galausida af sis thos naudibandjos jah tho ana fotum eisarna gabrak, jah manna ni mahta ina gatamjan.

Luther: Denn er war oft mit Fesseln und Ketten gebunden gewesen und hatte die Ketten abgerissen und die Fesseln zerrieben, und niemand konnte ihn zähmen.

Spanish: Porque muchas veces había sido atado con grillos y cadenas, mas las cadenas habían sido hechas pedazos por él, y desmenuzados los grillos, y nadie le podía domar.

Portuguese: pois já fora preso muitas vezes com grilhões e correntes, e despedaçara os grilhões e quebrara as correntes; ninguém era capaz de o dominar.

Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. [kjv]

και βασιλεια τεταρτη εσται ισχυρα ως ο σιδηρος ον τροπον ο σιδηρος λεπτυνει και δαμαζει παντα ουτως παντα λεπτυνει και δαμασει [lxx]

and a fourth kingdom, which shall be strong as iron: as iron beats to powder and subdues all things, so shall it beat to powder and subdue. [bs3]

The ancient Greek word "δαμάζω" ≈ "tame, subdue, control, seduce, rape, kill".

In prophetic terms, Daniel, in about 550 BC, is describing the Roman empire which would increase in power in about 300 years. The Greek word for "break into pieces" is related to the Greek word for "scales" (as on a fish) and "leprosy".

More: Matthew 11:1-6: Trapped by an offensive misinterpretation of Jesus

Daniel 2:40

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KJV: And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Hebrew: ומלכו רביעיה תהוא תקיפה כפרזלא כל קבל די פרזלא מהדק וחשל כלא וכפרזלא די מרעע כל אלין תדק ותרע׃

Greek: και βασιλεια τεταρτη εσται ισχυρα ως ο σιδηρος ον τροπον ο σιδηρος λεπτυνει και δαμαζει παντα ουτως παντα λεπτυνει και δαμασει

Brenton: and a fourth kingdom, which shall be strong as iron: as iron beats to powder and subdues all things, so shall it beat to powder and subdue.

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. [kjv]

την δε γλωσσαν ουδεις δαμασαι δυναται ανθρωπων ακαταστατον κακον μεστη ιου θανατηφορου [gnt]

As in many places in James, James appears to be taking some specific instances and making an inappropriate generalization from which he then makes some conclusions. Is a "tongue" ever "good"? Does everyone have a "tongue" filled with "deadly" "poison"? Can someone "tame" their own "tongue" (reflexively).

The Greek word translated as "unruly" was translated as "unstable" in chapter 1.
The Greek word translated as "evil" is that of "bad" and not "oppression" (the usual meaning).
The Greek word for "poison" is sometimes translated as "rust". Today, it is the Greek word for "virus".

More: Viral origins of the word virus

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. [kjv]

την δε γλωσσαν ουδεις δαμασαι δυναται ανθρωπων ακαταστατον κακον μεστη ιου θανατηφορου [gnt]

James 3:8
Strong	Used	Unique	Word	Part of speech
G3588	19706	1518	την	article accusative singular feminine
G1161	2777	2755	δε	conjunction
G1100	50	7	γλωσσαν	noun accusative singular feminine
G3762	233	100	ουδεις	adjective nominative singular masculine negative
G1410	206	71	δυναται	verb present middle/passive deponent indicative 3rd person singular
G444	548	99	ανθρωπων	noun genitive plural masculine
G1150	4	2	δαμασαι	verb aorist active infinitive
G182	2	1	ακαταστατον	adjective nominative singular neuter
G2556	50	24	κακον	adjective nominative singular neuter
G3324	9	2	μεστη	adjective nominative singular feminine
G2447	3	1	ιου	noun genitive singular masculine
G2287	1	1	θανατηφορου	adjective genitive singular masculine

James 3:8

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KJV: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Greek: την δε γλωσσαν ουδεις δαμασαι δυναται ανθρωπων δαμασαι ακατασχετον ακαταστατον κακον μεστη ιου θανατηφορου

Clement writes to the Corinthians. There is a "revolt" there. It is not clear if there was false teaching from the religious hierarchy. Clement appears to assume true teaching. Does it make a difference?

English: 57.1 You, therefore, who laid the foundation of the revolt must submit to the presbyters and accept discipline leading to repentance, bending the knees of your heart. (Holmes, 2007, p. 121)

Greek: Ὑμεῖς οὖν, οἱ τὴν καταβο λὴν τῆς στά σε ως ποι ή σαν τες, ὑπο τάγη τε τοῖς πρε σβυ τέροις καὶ παι δεύ θητε εἰς μετά νοι αν, κάμ ψαν τες τὰ γόνατα τῆς καρ δί ας ὑμῶν. Clement 1 [57.1]

Clement writes to the Corinthians. There is a "revolt" there. It is not clear if there was false teaching from the religious hierarchy. Clement appears to assume true teaching. Does it make a difference?

English: 57.2 Learn how to subordinate yourselves, laying aside the arrogant and proud stubbornness of your tongue. For it is better for you to be found small but included in the flock of Christ than to have a preeminent reputation and yet be excluded from his hope. (Holmes, 2007, p. 121)

Greek: μάθετε ὑπο τάσ σε σθαι, ἀπο θέμε νοι τὴν ἀλα ζόνα καὶ ὑπε ρήφα νον τῆς γλώσ σης ὑμῶν αὐθά δει αν· ἄμει νον γάρ ἐστιν ὑμῖν ἐν τῷ ποιμ νίῳ τοῦ Χρι στοῦ μικροὺς καὶ ἐλλο γίμους εὑρε θῆναι, ἢ καθ’ ὑπε ροχὴν δοκοῦν τας ἐκρι φῆναι ἐκ τῆς ἐλπί δος αὐτοῦ. Clement 1 [57.2]