Send Close Add comments: (status displays here)
Got it!  This site "creationpie.com" uses cookies. You consent to this by clicking on "Got it!" or by continuing to use this website.  Note: This appears on each machine/browser from which this site is accessed.
An opposite angle on the agony of punishment
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640


1. An opposite angle on the agony of punishment
Geometry angleThe Greek mathematician Euclid formalized the field of geometry where the angle is a fundamental part of geometry. Many students have had to learn geometry and proofs, etc., though some treat it as "agony".

In Greek, the usual prefix to negate the word for "angle" would be the word for "agony". The words are not related, but a play on words or pun is possible.

Might Paul have used such a play on words in his writings?

2. Overview
To understand this better, here is on overview of the background covered.

3. Initiation into an open and shut mystery
Verse route2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [kjv]
Verse routeω γαρ μη παρεστιν ταυτα τυφλος εστιν μυωπαζων ληθην λαβων του καθαρισμου των παλαι αυτου αμαρτιων [gnt]

Question markThe English word "mystery" comes from the Greek word that had to do, not only with not knowing something, but had to do with initiation rites of secret societies, such as Greek philosophical societies.

It comes from the Greek word for "shut" as in the English word "myopia" as in "shut eye" which appears in 2 Peter 1:9.

Information sign More: Initiation into an open and shut mystery

4. The actual potency and inner workings of energy
Verse routeGalatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [kjv]
Verse routeο ουν επιχορηγων υμιν το πνευμα και ενεργων δυναμεις εν υμιν εξ εργων νομου η εξ ακοης πιστεως [gnt]

Energy is a word and concept that has ancient roots but had a different meaning in ancient times. Aristotle first used the ancient Greek word "ενέργεια""actuality" for "actuality", literally, "in working".

The ancient Greek word "δύναμις""power, might, strength, potentiality" and is used by Aristotle for something that has "potential". The root word is "work" and is used many times in the LXX (Septuagint) and GNT (Greek New Testament).

Information sign More: The actual potency and inner workings of energy

5. The angle on and agony of geometry
Geometry angleThe Greek mathematician Euclid formalized the field of geometry where the angle is a fundamental part of geometry. The Greek words for "angle" and "knee" are related.

Many students have had to learn geometry and proofs, etc., though some perceive it as "agony".

This is ironic (in the modern sense) in that if one adds the usual negation prefix to the Greek word for "angle", the result is the Greek word for "agony" (as in a strenuous athletic competition).

6. Angles
The Germanic tribe known as the "Angles" as in "Anglo-Saxon" gave their name to both "England" and "English".

There are many ideas as to how they became known as the "Angles". According to St. Bede, the Anglo-Saxons were descended from the Angles, the Saxons and the Jutes.

7. Hebrew vav as hook and Greek hook, anchor and hug
Hebrew letter וו - hook
The Hebrew word "וו" (vav) ≈ "hook" and is made of two Hebrew "vav" letters. In some fonts, that Hebrew letter has the hook at the top end that represents a "hook".

The ancient Greek word "ἄγκιστρον""hook" and comes from "ἀγκάλη""bend" which is translated as "hug" in Luke. The word is related to the English word for "anchor" and is related to the word "Angles" from which we get the first part of the word "Anglo-Saxon".
Verse routeJob 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? [kjv]
Verse routeαξεις δε δρακοντα εν αγκιστρω περιθησεις δε φορβεαν περι ρινα αυτου [lxx]

Information sign More: Hebrew vav as hook and Greek hook, anchor and hug

8. Ankle
The English word "ankle" and comes from the Middle English word "ankel""ankle" and comes the Old English word "ancol""ankle".

The following are related.

9. Triangles
SimplifiedThe English word "triangle" comes, through French, from the Latin word "triangulum""triangle" from the Latin word "tres""three" and the Latin word "angulus""corner, angle" which appears to be a calque of the Greek word.

The ancient Greek word "τρίγωνον""triangle" from the ancient Greek word "τρεῖς""three" and the ancient Greek word "γωνία""corner, angle".

A "polygon" has "many angles".

The modern Greek word "τρίγωνο" (TREE-go-no) ≈ "triangle".

10. Trigonometry
SimplifiedThe field of "trigonometry", a word from the early 1600's, is concerned with the geometry of angles and comes from the new Latin word "trigonometria""trigonometry" which comes from two Greek words.

11. Philippians 2:10 Knees bending
Verse routePhilippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [kjv]
Verse routeινα εν τω ονοματι ιησου παν γονυ καμψη επουρανιων και επιγειων και καταχθονιων [gnt]

Geometry angleThe ancient Greek word "γόνυ""knee" which is related to the Latin word "genu""knee" and the Old English word "cneow""knee".
It is not hard to see how a word for "knee" could change into the word for "angle".

The Greek for "all" is singular so there are no exceptions unless modified, for example, by, say, a verb in the subjunctive tense. That is the case here.

Information sign More: Everything and all things: But wait, there's more

12. Philippians 2:10 Knees
Verse routePhilippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [kjv]
Verse routeινα εν τω ονοματι ιησου παν γονυ καμψη επουρανιων και επιγειων και καταχθονιων [gnt]

Philippians 2:10
Strong Used Unique Word Part of speech
The Greek for "all" is singular so there are no exceptions unless modified, for example, by, say, a verb in the subjunctive tense. That is the case here for "bow" or "bend".

That is, every single knee (no exceptions) should bow.

13. Geneva
The PIE (Proto Indo-European) root is "*GONU""knee".

A related word is the English word "Geneva" as in the city in Switzerland named for the bending river there.

14. Philippians 2:10
 All 
KJV: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Greek: ινα εν τω ονοματι ιησου παν γονυ καμψη επουρανιων και επιγειων και καταχθονιων

15. Modern Greek

16. Diagram- knee
Linguistic diagram of knee

17. Bowing
The following "things" should "bow" or "bend".

18. A prefix alpha to negate
The Greek prefix "α" (alpha) negates the word for which it is a prefix. This has come through to English in many pairs of words. The same idea comes through in many English words taken from the Greek.

Information sign More: A prefix alpha to negate

19. Philippians 1:30 Athletic agony
Verse routePhilippians 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me. [kjv]
Verse routeτον αυτον αγωνα εχοντες οιον ειδετε εν εμοι και νυν ακουετε εν εμοι [gnt]

The (passive) "conflict" (as if within himself) is a Greek (active) word "fight" or "race" or "struggle" as used for athletic contests. The ancient Greek word "ἀγωνία""competition, struggle" and is the source of the English word "agony".

In the past, one could "see" Paul persecuting the church. Now, one can "hear" Paul preaching the truth. This distinction is reemphasized later in Philippians. The Greek word for "hearing" assumes understanding of what is heard.

20. Thrill of victory

Many remember the ABC Sports line "the thrill of victory" and "the agony of defeat" as a skier, Vinko Bogataj, loses control on a downhill slope.

Many running injuries can be traced to the foot. It is the "agony of de feet".

The English word "agony" comes from the ancient Greek word "αγωνια""competition" which in many cases resulted in pain and agony.

21. Latin
Verse routePhilippians 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me. [kjv]
Verse routeτον αυτον αγωνα εχοντες οιον ειδετε εν εμοι και νυν ακουετε εν εμοι [gnt]
Verse routecertamenvidistisaudistis … [v]

The Latin word "certamen""fight, struggle".

22. Philippians 1:30
 All 
KJV: Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.
Greek: τον αυτον αγωνα εχοντες οιον ιδετε ειδετε εν εμοι και νυν ακουετε εν εμοι
Latin: eundem certamen habentes qualem et vidistis in me et nunc audistis de me

23. Strongs - conflict

24. Punishment by punny puns
A pun is a play on words or double meaning for a word or phrase. Some people love puns. Some people hate puns. There are many puns, or play on words, used in Hebrew (and Greek) in the Bible. Most puns are by sound, some by meaning, etc.

Here are links to some puns related to Bible themes, with more being added over time.

25. Possible puns
Given the background, let us see of any of the places where Paul uses the (more active) word "agony", often translated as the (more passive) word "conflict", Paul might have had a double-meaning or pun in mind.

26. Word usage
The usage of the Greek word for "agony" in 18 verses is as follows.

27. Possible puns
The letters to Corinth and Ephesus (Timothy), as well as Hebrews, use the word "agony" in the context of athletic competition - the primary meaning of the word.

The leading candidate for possible puns is the letter to the city of Colossae which has many explicit mention of (Greek) philosophy and allusions to Greek mathematics and logic on which much of that philosophy is based.

The other pun possibilities are in the letters to Philippi and Thesolonica.

28. Colossians 1:29 Labor and work
Verse routeColossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. [kjv]
Verse routeεις ο και κοπιω αγωνιζομενος κατα την ενεργειαν αυτου την ενεργουμενην εν εμοι εν δυναμει [gnt]

The words for "working" and "mighty" had an additional special meaning in the philosophy of Aristotle.

Information sign More: The actual potency and inner workings of energy
Paul is working as in an active laboring, the base meaning of "agony". This verse is a lead-in to chapter 2 which talks about the dangers of philosophy using additional terms that had meaning in philosophy.

Could Paul have a double meaning in that he is "not an angle" in that he is aware of the dangers of (passive) philosophy thinking?

29. Colossians 1:29
 All 
KJV: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Greek: εις ο και κοπιω αγωνιζομενος κατα την ενεργειαν αυτου την ενεργουμενην εν εμοι εν δυναμει

30. Colossians 2:1 Philosophy and empty deception
Verse routeColossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; [kjv]
Verse routeθελω γαρ υμας ειδεναι ηλικον αγωνα εχω υπερ υμων και των εν λαοδικεια και οσοι ουχ το προσωπον μου εν σαρκι [gnt]

This verse starts the chapter about the dangers of philosophy and empty deception.

Paul is actively laboring in the Greek "agony" rather than passively thinking in philosophy as in "not an angle" as in "this is not geometry class".

31. Colossians 2:1
 All 
KJV: For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
Greek: θελω γαρ υμας ειδεναι ηλικον αγωνα εχω περι υπερ υμων και των εν λαοδικεια και οσοι ουχ εωρακασιν εορακαν το προσωπον μου εν σαρκι

32. Colossians 4:12 Epaphras
Since the other two verses where the word for "agony" may have a double-meaning, the remaining verse, at the end of the letter, is included.

Verse routeColossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. [kjv]
Verse routeασπαζεται υμας επαφρας ο εξ υμων δουλος χριστου ιησου παντοτε αγωνιζομενος υπερ υμων εν ταις προσευχαις ινα τελειοι και πεπληροφορημενοι εν παντι θεληματι του θεου [gnt]

To be "complete" one should be actively laboring in the Greek "agony" rather than passively thinking in philosophy as in "not an angle".

33. Colossians 4:12
 All 
KJV: Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
Greek: ασπαζεται υμας επαφρας ο εξ υμων δουλος χριστου ιησου παντοτε αγωνιζομενος υπερ υμων εν ταις προσευχαις ινα στητε σταθητε τελειοι και πεπληρωμενοι πεπληροφορημενοι εν παντι θεληματι του θεου

34. 1 Thessalonians 2:2 Thessaloníka
Verse route1 Thessalonians 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention. [kjv]
Verse routeαλλα προπαθοντες και υβρισθεντες καθως οιδατε εν φιλιπποις επαρρησιασαμεθα εν τω θεω ημων λαλησαι προς υμας το ευαγγελιον του θεου εν πολλω αγωνι [gnt]

Here the word for "agony" is translated by the KJV as "contention".

Greek has other words that would indicate contention or commotion.

Information sign More: Eristic reasoning creates strife and contention
Information sign More: A mania for confusing commotions

35. 1 Thessalonians 2:2
 All 
KJV: But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
Greek: αλλα και προπαθοντες και υβρισθεντες καθως οιδατε εν φιλιπποις επαρρησιασαμεθα εν τω θεω ημων λαλησαι προς υμας το ευαγγελιον του θεου εν πολλω αγωνι

36. Luke
The verses in Luke, Isaiah and Daniel are interesting though it appears that no double meaning can be discerned here.

37. Luke 13:24 Gates in Luke
Verse routeLuke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. [kjv]
Verse routeαγωνιζεσθε εισελθειν δια της στενης θυρας οτι πολλοι λεγω υμιν ζητησουσιν εισελθειν και ουκ ισχυσουσιν [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "αγονία""contest, competition". This is an active striving as in athletic competition. It is not a passive thought process.

The "strait" is not "straight" but "narrow" is in the "strait of Gibraltar" or the "Bering strait".

The KJV translates as "not be able" the Greek that is "not strong (enough)".

Information sign More: Strait talk about narrow and wide gates

38. Luke 13:24
   Luke 13:24 
 All 
KJV: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Greek: αγωνιζεσθε εισελθειν δια της στενης πυλης θυρας οτι πολλοι λεγω υμιν ζητησουσιν εισελθειν και ουκ ισχυσουσιν

39. Luke 22:44 Prayer in Luke
Verse routeLuke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι γενομενος εν αγωνια εκτενεστερον προσηυχετο και εγενετο ο ιδρως αυτου ωσει θρομβοι αιματος καταβαινοντες επι την [gnt]

The ancient Greek word "αγονία""contest, competition" and is the source of the English word "agony". An active striving, as in a sports competition, is a very strenuous and tiring experience. The KJV word of "agony" is somewhat misleading in this respect.

The KJV translates as "as it were" (as a given fact) what in the Greek is "as if" as an analogy or comparison. That is, a "potentiality" (in Greek) and not an "actuality" (in English).

The ancient Greek word "θρόμβος""piece, lump, clot" and is the source of the English word "thrombosis" as a "blood clot". The "great" is added in the KJV as an assumption. The "drops" could be small, medium, large, etc.

The ancient Greek word "αἷμα""blood" and is the source of the English word "anemic".

Note the common linguistic connection between "blood dropping" to "drop of blood" to "droplet".

Information sign More: The one drop of blood salvation fallacy

40. Isaiah 7:13 Isaiah
KJV:
Verse routeIsaiah 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? [kjv]

LXX:
Verse routeκαι ειπεν ακουσατε δη οικος δαυιδ μη μικρον υμιν αγωνα παρεχειν ανθρωποις και πως κυριω παρεχετε αγωνα [lxx]
Verse routeAnd he said, Hear you° now, O house of David; is it a little thing for you to contend with men? and how do you° contend against the Lord? [bs3]


41. Isaiah 7:13
   Isaiah 7:13 
 All 
KJV: And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
Hebrew: ויאמר שמעו נא בית דוד המעט מכם הלאות אנשים כי תלאו גם את אלהי׃
Greek: και ειπεν ακουσατε δη οικος δαυιδ μη μικρον υμιν αγωνα παρεχειν ανθρωποις και πως κυριω παρεχετε αγωνα
Brenton: And he said, Hear you° now, O house of David; is it a little thing for you to contend with men? and how do you° contend against the Lord?

42. Daniel 6:14 Den of lions
KJV:
Verse routeDaniel 6:14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him: and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him. [kjv]

LXX:
Verse routeτοτε ο βασιλευς ως το ρημα ηκουσεν πολυ ελυπηθη επ αυτω και περι του δανιηλ ηγωνισατο του εξελεσθαι αυτον και εως εσπερας ην αγωνιζομενος του εξελεσθαι αυτον [lxx]
Verse routeThen the king, when he heard the saying, was much grieved for Daniel and he greatly exerted himself for Daniel to deliver him: and he exerted himself till evening to deliver him. [bs3]


43. Daniel 6:14
   Daniel 6:14 
 All 
KJV: Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him: and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him.
Hebrew: אדין מלכא כדי מלתא שמע שגיא באש עלוהי ועל דניאל שם בל לשיזבותה ועד מעלי שמשא הוא משתדר להצלותה׃
Greek: τοτε ο βασιλευς ως το ρημα ηκουσεν πολυ ελυπηθη επ αυτω και περι του δανιηλ ηγωνισατο του εξελεσθαι αυτον και εως εσπερας ην αγωνιζομενος του εξελεσθαι αυτον
Brenton: Then the king, when he heard the saying, was much grieved for Daniel and he greatly exerted himself for Daniel to deliver him: and he exerted himself till evening to deliver him.

44. End of page

by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640