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Meno Paradox: Seeking to learn what you do not know
1. 2 Peter 1:3 Virtue
2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: [kjv]
ως παντα ημιν της θειας δυναμεως αυτου τα προς ζωην και ευσεβειαν δεδωρημενης δια της επιγνωσεως του καλεσαντος ημας δια δοξης και αρετης [gnt]
The central part of the Meno Socratic dialog is that of determining whether
"virtue" can be taught.
Here we look at just the paradox aspect of the dialog. Here, Socrates gets Meno in a bind with no way out, or "
aporia".
2. 2 Peter 1:3
KJV: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Greek: ως παντα ημιν της θειας δυναμεως αυτου τα προς ζωην και ευσεβειαν δεδωρημενης δια της επιγνωσεως του καλεσαντος ημας δια δοξης και αρετης
3. Aporia of the Meno paradox
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [kjv]
και εσονται σημεια εν ηλιω και σεληνη και αστροις και επι της γης συνοχη εθνων εν απορια θαλασσης και σαλου [gnt]
The English word
"aporia" as an
"insoluble contradiction" comes, through French, from the Latin word
"aporia" ≈ "impassible, difficult" which comes from
"ἀπορία" ≈ "impassable, difficult".
Plato writes of Socrates questioning Meno such that Meno feels he has been presented with a problem for which there is no apparent solution - an
"aporia". The matter involves whether one can self-learn or not and how. Meno's contrived response is known as the "
Meno paradox".
The modern Greek word
"απορία" (a-po-REE-a) ≈ "puzzlement, destitution".
4. Reflexive learning and teaching
One learns a lot from teaching.
Can one teach oneself?
Can one learn reflexively?
Part of the idea of learning and what can be learned, etc., is part of what is called the "
Meno Paradox" from the Greek philosopher Plato.
5. German teaching and learning
6. Fallacy
An underlying fallacy in the "
Learner's Paradox" is that of equivocation, an idea that was first defined by Aristotle. In equivocation, one equates a meaning of a word with another meaning of that word.
Before I knew the usual name of this fallacy I coined the term "
semantic slide" since the meaning or semantics of the word was made slippery. Another phrase I use for individual words is a "
word slide".
7. Equivocation deception between names and meanings
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [kjv]
ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω [gnt]
… cum … forma … rapinam … aequalem … [v]
2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [kjv]
διο και ο θεος αυτον υπερυψωσεν και εχαρισατο αυτω το ονομα το υπερ παν ονομα [gnt]
An
"equivocation" is done when two
"names" are made to be
"equal" whereas the corresponding "
things" or "
meanings" are
not "equal". The English word
"equivocate" is from the late Latin word
"aequivoco" ≈ "call or name in the same way".
In Greek, if the context does not make it clear that two things are
"equal" using "
is", then the explicit Greek word
"ισα" ≈ "equal" is needed, as in the above verse.
8. Blood shed for you
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. [kjv]
τουτο γαρ εστιν το αιμα μου της διαθηκης το περι πολλων εκχυννομενον εις αφεσιν αμαρτιων [gnt]
Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many. [kjv]
και ειπεν αυτοις τουτο εστιν το αιμα μου της διαθηκης το εκχυννομενον υπερ πολλων [gnt]
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. [kjv]
και το ποτηριον ωσαυτως μετα το δειπνησαι λεγων τουτο το ποτηριον η καινη διαθηκη εν τω αιματι μου το υπερ υμων εκχυννομενον [gnt]
In Greek, if the context does not make it clear that two things are
"equal" using "
is", then the explicit Greek word
"ισα" ≈ "equal" is needed, as in the above verse.
Does the
context of these statements at the Last Supper using
"is" constitute
equality, as in
transubstantiation? Is an explicit
"equals" in Greek needed? Luke does not have an
"is" for the "
blood" but is more indirect.
9. Ignorance of agnostic lack of belief
Ignorance has to do with not knowing something with an emphasis on "
not knowing that one does not know".
As soon as you can say "
I do not know X" then "
you know that you do not know X".
For computer scientists and others dealing with and reasoning about knowledge, an important concept is "
knowing that you know" something. John understands this.
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [kjv]
και εν τουτω γινωσκομεν οτι εγνωκαμεν αυτον εαν τας εντολας αυτου τηρωμεν [gnt]
10. John 9: One thing I know is that I know nothing
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Socrates has a famous quote (from Plato).
Greek: εν οίδα ότι ουδέν οίδα
English: The only thing I know is that I know nothing.
As related by Aristotle, Socrates used this claim of "knowing nothing" to avoid answering questions. That way, he could ask questions but did not need to answer any.
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This is a paradox in that "
How can one know that one knows nothing?".
That same Greek phrasing is found in the book of John by the blind man referring to Jesus who had healed him.
John 9:25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see. [kjv]
απεκριθη ουν εκεινος ει αμαρτωλος εστιν ουκ οιδα εν οιδα οτι τυφλος ων αρτι βλεπω [gnt]
… video [v]
11. John 14:1
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [kjv]
μη ταρασσεσθω υμων η καρδια πιστευετε εις τον θεον και εις εμε πιστευετε [gnt]
The high level patterns in John 14-22 are not easy to discern. Many get lost in the details and cannot see the big picture.
12. Trees and forests
The
complete group tends to look at the big picture and sees the forest but not the trees. Trees, as details, just bring out inconsistencies which are better ignored.
The
consistent group tends to look at the trees, as details, and tends to miss the big picture. The details need to be consistent even if the big picture is not clear.
13. Put it together
Let us put together the above concepts into a diagram.
Philosophers are people who know less and less about more and more, until they know nothing about everything. Scientists are people who know more and more about less and less, until they know everything about nothing. Konrad Lorenz (Austrian zoologist)
14. John 14:1
KJV: Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Greek: μη ταρασσεσθω υμων η καρδια πιστευετε εις τον θεον και εις εμε πιστευετε
15. Mansions
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [kjv]
εν τη οικια του πατρος μου μοναι πολλαι εισιν ει δε μη ειπον αν υμιν οτι πορευομαι ετοιμασαι τοπον υμιν [gnt]
… mansiones … locum [v]
… dwellyngis… [wy]
… mansions… [ty]
John 14:2 is a favorite verse of pastors at funerals. Everyone wants to go to a
"mansion".
The English word
"mansion" came from the Latin word
"mansio" ≈ "dwelling or stopping place" while the Greek word just means an
"abode" or
"dwelling place" as in where one will
"remain". The older English meaning of
"mansion", still used today in England, is that of a
"dwelling place".
16. John 14:2 Place
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [kjv]
εν τη οικια του πατρος μου μοναι πολλαι εισιν ει δε μη ειπον αν υμιν οτι πορευομαι ετοιμασαι τοπον υμιν [gnt]
… domo … mansiones … locum [v]
Jesus is going to prepare a place for believers. There is a place prepared for non-believers too, but it is not the same
"place", and, from descriptions, it appears to have central heating that cannot be turned off.
Knock and it will be opened. Or is it central cooling in a "
place of outer darkness"? More detail is left for another time.
The ancient Greek word
"τόπος" ≈ "place" and is the source of the English word
"topology" as the study of shapes. The Latin word
"locum" ≈ "place, locus" and is the source of the English word
"locus".
17. Mansions and places
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [kjv]
εν τη οικια του πατρος μου μοναι πολλαι εισιν ει δε μη ειπον αν υμιν οτι πορευομαι ετοιμασαι τοπον υμιν [gnt]
… mansiones … locum [v]
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. [kjv]
και εαν πορευθω και ετοιμασω τοπον υμιν παλιν ερχομαι και υμας προς εμαυτον ινα οπου ειμι εγω και υμεις ητε [gnt]
… locum … [v]
These verses are well-known. Jesus is going to prepare a
"place". The next part is more enigmatic.
The Latin word
"locus" ≈ "place" and is the source of the English word
"locus".
18. Meno Paradox: Seeking to learn what you do not know
John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. [kjv]
και οπου εγω υπαγω οιδατε την οδον [gnt]
14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? [kjv]
λεγει αυτω θωμας κυριε ουκ οιδαμεν που υπαγεις πως οιδαμεν την οδον [gnt]
How might one seek to learn what one does not know? Thomas expresses this idea in John 14:5.
The phrase what Thomas said in another way, "
How do we know the way when we do not where you are going.".
This verse brings to mind the "
Meno Paradox" that arose from the name of a Socratic dialog by Plato involving an actor called Meno. Another name for this paradox is the "
Learner's Paradox".
19. Meno Paradox
Socrates to Meno: (summarizing Meno's omitted and long-winded argument)
English: Do you see what a captious argument you are introducing - that, forsooth, a man cannot inquire either about what he knows or about what he does not know? For he cannot inquire about what he knows, because he knows it, and in that case is in no need of inquiry; nor again can he inquire about what he does not know, since he does not know about what he is to inquire. (Loeb#165, p. 301)
Greek: … ὁρᾷς τοῦτον ὡς ἐριστικὸν λόγον κατάγεις, ὡς οὐκ ἄρα ἔστιν ζητεῖν ἀνθρώπῳ οὔτε ὃ οἶδε οὔτε ὃ μὴ οἶδε; οὔτε γὰρ ἂν ὅ γε οἶδεν ζητοῖ οἶδεν γάρ, καὶ οὐδὲν δεῖ τῷ γε τοιούτῳ ζητήσεως οὔτε ὃ μὴ οἶδεν οὐδὲ γὰρ οἶδεν ὅτι ζητήσει. [Plato, 81e]
The Greek translated as "
captious argument" is that of an "
eristic reasoning". The English word
"captious" comes through Latin and has the (older) meaning of arguments designed to entrap or mislead (e.g., sophistical). The above English translation is from 1952.
20. Eristic reasoning
English: Do you see what a captious argument you are introducing… (Loeb#165, p. 301)
Greek: … ὁρᾷς τοῦτον ὡς ἐριστικὸν λόγον … ζητεῖν … ζητοῖ … ζητήσεως … ζητήσει. [Plato, 81e]
Aristotle details at length both "
eristic reasoning" or "
captious arguments" and other types of invalid reasoning. Eristic reasoning involves "
contending" that things are valid when they are not. This, through Latin, became "
contentious" reasoning which became "
strife" in English.
Paul often pairs "
opinion" and "
invalid logic" but the translations do not make this obvious. Today, it sometimes happens that those who use "
valid reasoning" from the Bible are accused of creating "
strife" by the very teachers who are using "
invalid reasoning" and presenting their own "
opinions" as Bible truth.
21. Meno paradox
A problem in Greek philosophy was that of "
knowing" and attaining "
knowledge". From Plato, here is a concise and brief formulation of Meno's Paradox.
If you know what you are looking for, there is no need to ask. Asking is unnecessary.
If you do not know what you are looking for, there is no way to ask. Asking is impossible.
The underlying assumption is that either you know what you are looking for or you do not know what you are looking for. There is a bit of "
sophistic" deception going on here, but it can be difficult to identify.
Thomas: "
How do we know the way when we do not where you are going.".
22. Resolution
One resolution of the Meno paradox, or trickery, is to consider finding a missing piece of a puzzle.
The idea is that "
knowing what type of piece would fit" is different from "
knowing the detail of the missing piece".
One often assumes some properties of what one is looking for. The pieces already put together form one's world view. One is thus influenced in what one sees from that world view. If a piece fits, it is often assumed to be that missing piece.
23. Tools and thinking
The tools we use have a profound (and devious!) influence on our thinking habits, and, therefore, on our thinking abilities. Dijkstra, E. (June 18, 1975). "How do we tell truths that hurt?", EWD 498.
We often see what we want to see and find what it is we have determined we are looking for. One name for this is "
confirmation bias".
24. Puzzle remarks
The puzzle analogy brings to mind several ways in which we can be deceived.
Others may deceive us. One name for this is "
framing".
We may deceive ourselves be creating our own "
frames".
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Details are left as a future topic.
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25. Inductive and deductive science
At one time, science was an inductive search for reality truth. That is, one gathered data from reality, constructed models, and determined how those models matched reality so that predictions could be made from those models.
Many parts of science have moved bottom-up forward-chaining inductive models based on measured evidence to top-down backward-chaining deductive reasoning from equation models that have been assumed to be correct. Then, searches are made to find the missing puzzle pieces that fit that world view. Some examples are the following.
Black holes
Dark matter
Dark energy
Nuclear fusion (as an energy source)
It is an example of "
seek and you will find" (what you are looking for).
26. John 14:2
KJV: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Greek: εν τη οικια του πατρος μου μοναι πολλαι εισιν ει δε μη ειπον αν υμιν οτι πορευομαι ετοιμασαι τοπον υμιν
Latin: in domo Patris mei mansiones multae sunt si quo minus dixissem vobis quia vado parare vobis locum
27. John 14:3
KJV: And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Greek: και εαν πορευθω και ετοιμασω υμιν τοπον υμιν παλιν ερχομαι και παραληψομαι παραλημψομαι υμας προς εμαυτον ινα οπου ειμι εγω και υμεις ητε
Latin: et si abiero et praeparavero vobis locum iterum venio et accipiam vos ad me ipsum ut ubi sum ego et vos sitis
28. John 14:4
KJV: And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Greek: και οπου εγω υπαγω οιδατε και την οδον οιδατε
29. John 14:5
KJV: Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Greek: λεγει αυτω θωμας κυριε ουκ οιδαμεν που υπαγεις και πως δυναμεθα οιδαμεν την οδον ειδεναι
30. John 14:6 Way truth and life
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [kjv]
λεγει αυτω ιησους εγω ειμι η οδος και η αληθεια και η ζωη ουδεις ερχεται προς τον πατερα ει μη δι εμου [gnt]
… via … veritas … vita … [v]
Jesus is the
"way",
"truth" and
"life".
In Latin, these three words start with "
v":
"via",
"veritas" and
"vita". The Greek and Hebrew words for
"truth" have to do with "
reality" and
not "
logic" or "
opinion". Thus, Jesus is the
"way" (opinion as in glory), the
"truth" (reality as in science) and the
"life" (logic as in information).
Here we are interested in the "
Learner's Paradox".
31. John 14:6
KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Greek: λεγει αυτω ο ιησους εγω ειμι η οδος και η αληθεια και η ζωη ουδεις ερχεται προς τον πατερα ει μη δι εμου
Latin: dicit ei Iesus ego sum via et veritas et vita nemo venit ad Patrem nisi per me
32. Stair analogy
This part of John is organized in a top-down backward-chaining manner.
A stair analogy can be used to help understand
top-down design and
bottom-up implementation.
The goal is the top of the stairs.
The start is the bottom of the stairs.
Implementation:
Do it: 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 (same either way)
Design: When it works,
top-down tends to be
better.
Think bottom-up: 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 then 5 (start to goal)
Think top-down: 5 if 4 if 3 if 2 if 1 (goal to start)
33. Ask seek knock
This part of John deals with the ask seek knock sequence in a top-down backward-chaining manner.
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Think bottom-up forward-chaining: Start with "ask" then continue with "seek" then finish with "knock".
Think top-down backward-chaining: One can finish with "knock" if one continues with a "seek" if one starts with an "ask".
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Do it: "ask", "seek", "knock".
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Here is one interpretation for the three parts, in
top-down backward-chaining order as appears to be used by John in John chapters 14 and following.
Ask for the opportunity to knock and it will be made for you, if you
ask for the opportunity to seek and it will be given to you, if you
ask for the opportunity to ask and it will be given to you.
34. John 14:7-9
35. John 14:7
KJV: If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Greek: ει εγνωκειτε εγνωκατε με και τον πατερα μου εγνωκειτε αν ηδειτε γνωσεσθε και απ αρτι γινωσκετε αυτον και εωρακατε αυτον
36. John 14:8
KJV: Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Greek: λεγει αυτω φιλιππος κυριε δειξον ημιν τον πατερα και αρκει ημιν
37. John 14:9
KJV: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Greek: λεγει αυτω ο ο ιησους τοσουτον χρονον μεθ υμων ειμι και ουκ εγνωκας με φιλιππε ο εωρακως εμε εωρακεν τον πατερα και πως συ λεγεις δειξον ημιν τον πατερα
38. John 14:10 Remain
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. [kjv]
ου πιστευεις οτι εγω εν τω πατρι και ο πατηρ εν εμοι εστιν τα ρηματα α εγω λεγω υμιν απ εμαυτου ου λαλω ο δε πατηρ εν εμοι μενων ποιει τα εργα αυτου [gnt]
The Greek word for "
remain" as "
meno" (first person singular) appears
8 times in the
GNT (Greek New Testament). John uses it
7 times in John (
4 times), 1 John (
2 times) and 2 John (
1 time). Paul uses the word
1 time. It appears
4 times in the
LXX (Septuagint) (omitted)
39. John 14:10
KJV: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Greek: ου πιστευεις οτι εγω εν τω πατρι και ο πατηρ εν εμοι εστιν τα ρηματα α εγω λαλω λεγω υμιν απ εμαυτου ου λαλω ο δε πατηρ ο εν εμοι μενων αυτος ποιει τα εργα αυτου
40. John 14:22
41. John 14:22
KJV: Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Greek: λεγει αυτω ιουδας ουχ ο ισκαριωτης κυριε τι γεγονεν οτι ημιν μελλεις εμφανιζειν σεαυτον και ουχι τω κοσμω
42. John 14:23 Abode
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [kjv]
απεκριθη ιησους και ειπεν αυτω εαν τις αγαπα με τον λογον μου τηρησει και ο πατηρ μου αγαπησει αυτον και προς αυτον ελευσομεθα και μονην παρ αυτω ποιησομεθα [gnt]
… mansiones … [v]
The same Greek word that comes through Latin as "
mansion" is used in the same chapter in John as an "
abode". The ancient Greek word
"μένω" ≈ "stay, wait, remain". This verb is the basis of the name "
Meno" in a Platonic dialog that is the source of what is called the "
Meno paradox".
The Latin is the same word for "
mansion". One meaning of the English word
"abode" is that "
abide" or "
wait" is in a "
stay" as part of a "
sojourn". It could also be a "
residence" or "
dwelling place" for habitation.
The modern Greek word
"μένω" (MEH-no) ≈ "stay, remain, reside, live".
43. John 14:23
KJV: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Greek: απεκριθη ο ιησους και ειπεν αυτω εαν τις αγαπα με τον λογον μου τηρησει και ο πατηρ μου αγαπησει αυτον και προς αυτον ελευσομεθα και μονην παρ αυτω ποιησομεν ποιησομεθα
Latin: respondit Iesus et dixit ei si quis diligit me sermonem meum servabit et Pater meus diliget eum et ad eum veniemus et mansiones apud eum faciemus
44. John 14:24-25
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. [kjv]
ο μη αγαπων με τους λογους μου ου τηρει και ο λογος ον ακουετε ουκ εστιν εμος αλλα του πεμψαντος με πατρος [gnt]
14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. [kjv]
ταυτα λελαληκα υμιν παρ υμιν μενων [gnt]
The ancient Greek word
"λόγος" ≈ "rational explanation" and is translated by the
KJV (King James Version) here as both "
sayings" and "
word". The meaning goes much deeper.
45. John 14:24
KJV: He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Greek: ο μη αγαπων με τους λογους μου ου τηρει και ο λογος ον ακουετε ουκ εστιν εμος αλλα του πεμψαντος με πατρος
46. John 14:25
KJV: These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Greek: ταυτα λελαληκα υμιν παρ υμιν μενων
47. John 15
In John 15, Jesus moves to the "
Seek" part of the top-down backward chaining thinking and design.
Much of John 15 deals with the "
Holy Spirit".
48. John 15:5-7
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [kjv]
εγω ειμι η αμπελος υμεις τα κληματα ο μενων εν εμοι καγω εν αυτω ουτος φερει καρπον πολυν οτι χωρις εμου ου δυνασθε ποιειν ουδεν [gnt]
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [kjv]
εαν μη τις μενη εν εμοι εβληθη εξω ως το κλημα και εξηρανθη και συναγουσιν αυτα και εις το πυρ βαλλουσιν και καιεται [gnt]
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [kjv]
εαν μεινητε εν εμοι και τα ρηματα μου εν υμιν μεινη ο εαν θελητε αιτησασθε και γενησεται υμιν [gnt]
49. John 15:5
KJV: I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Greek: εγω ειμι η αμπελος υμεις τα κληματα ο μενων εν εμοι καγω εν αυτω ουτος φερει καρπον πολυν οτι χωρις εμου ου δυνασθε ποιειν ουδεν
50. John 15:6
KJV: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Greek: εαν μη τις μεινη μενη εν εμοι εβληθη εξω ως το κλημα και εξηρανθη και συναγουσιν αυτα και εις το πυρ βαλλουσιν και καιεται
51. John 15:7
KJV: If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Greek: εαν μεινητε εν εμοι και τα ρηματα μου εν υμιν μεινη ο εαν θελητε αιτησεσθε αιτησασθε και γενησεται υμιν
52. John 15:8-10
John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. [kjv]
εν τουτω εδοξασθη ο πατηρ μου ινα καρπον πολυν φερητε και γενησθε εμοι μαθηται [gnt]
15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. [kjv]
καθως ηγαπησεν με ο πατηρ καγω υμας ηγαπησα μεινατε εν τη αγαπη τη εμη [gnt]
15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. [kjv]
εαν τας εντολας μου τηρησητε μενειτε εν τη αγαπη μου καθως εγω του πατρος τας εντολας τετηρηκα και μενω αυτου εν τη αγαπη [gnt]
53. John 15:8
KJV: Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Greek: εν τουτω εδοξασθη ο πατηρ μου ινα καρπον πολυν φερητε και γενησεσθε γενησθε εμοι μαθηται
54. John 15:9
KJV: As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Greek: καθως ηγαπησεν με ο πατηρ καγω ηγαπησα υμας ηγαπησα μεινατε εν τη αγαπη τη εμη
55. John 15:10
KJV: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Greek: εαν τας εντολας μου τηρησητε μενειτε εν τη αγαπη μου καθως εγω τας εντολας του πατρος μου τας εντολας τετηρηκα και μενω αυτου εν τη αγαπη
56. John 15:11-14
John 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. [kjv]
ταυτα λελαληκα υμιν ινα η χαρα η εμη εν υμιν η και η χαρα υμων πληρωθη [gnt]
15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. [kjv]
15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [kjv]
15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. [kjv]
The word for "
joy" as that of "
favor" or "
grace". The word "
remain" is not in some Greek manuscripts.
[Love as fellowship with other believers]
[Tiberius and taxes]
57. John 15:11
KJV: These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Greek: ταυτα λελαληκα υμιν ινα η χαρα η εμη εν υμιν μεινη η και η χαρα υμων πληρωθη
58. John 15:12
KJV: This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Greek: αυτη εστιν η εντολη η εμη ινα αγαπατε αλληλους καθως ηγαπησα υμας
59. John 15:13
KJV: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Greek: μειζονα ταυτης αγαπην ουδεις εχει ινα τις την ψυχην αυτου θη υπερ των φιλων αυτου
60. John 15:14
KJV: Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Greek: υμεις φιλοι μου εστε εαν ποιητε οσα ο εγω εντελλομαι υμιν
61. John 16
In John 16, Jesus moves to the "
Ask" part of the top-down backward-chaining thinking and design.
Much of John 16 deals with the "
Son".
62. John 17-21
John 14-16 deals with the top-down backward-chaining thinking and design.
Jesus will then put that design into practice in the bottom-up forward-chaining doing and implementation .
Design top-down:
(1) One can ask to "knock" (to the Father)
if (2) one asks to "seek" (with the Spirit)
if (3 ) one asks to "ask" (from the Son).
Implement bottom-up:
4. Ask: Pray in the garden as the start.
5. Seek: Arrest, trial, crucifixion and passive endurance of the hate of the world.
6. Knock: Asking the Father to receive him. It is finished.
63. Philippians 1:25
Philippians 1:25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; [kjv]
και τουτο πεποιθως οιδα οτι μενω και παραμενω πασιν υμιν εις την υμων προκοπην και χαραν της πιστεως [gnt]
The word "
meno" is used one by Paul. It does not appear to have any connection with the Meno paradox.
64. Philippians 1:25
KJV: And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
Greek: και τουτο πεποιθως οιδα οτι μενω και συμπαραμενω παραμενω πασιν υμιν εις την υμων προκοπην και χαραν της πιστεως
65. Letters of John
66. 1 John 3:6
KJV: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Greek: πας ο εν αυτω μενων ουχ αμαρτανει πας ο αμαρτανων ουχ εωρακεν αυτον ουδε εγνωκεν αυτον
67. 1 John 4:16
KJV: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Greek: και ημεις εγνωκαμεν και πεπιστευκαμεν την αγαπην ην εχει ο θεος εν ημιν ο θεος αγαπη εστιν και ο μενων εν τη αγαπη εν τω θεω μενει και ο θεος εν αυτω μενει
68. 2 John 1:9
KJV: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Greek: πας ο παραβαινων προαγων και μη μενων εν τη διδαχη του χριστου θεον ουκ εχει ο μενων εν τη διδαχη του χριστου ουτος και τον πατερα και τον υιον εχει
69. End of page
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. [kjv]
