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Defining a mountain
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640
1. Defining a mountain
How can one "define" a "mountain"? The ancient Greek words (and sounds) merged in modern Greek as "όρος" (O-ros) ≈ "mountain, definition, boundary".

In ancient Greek, there was (in Attic Greek) a rough or smooth breathing difference that disappeared by the time of the GNT (Greek New Testament). These distinctions have been continued by scholars and sometimes the importance of the differences appears to be exaggerated.

Let us look at the two meanings of the same word and then investigate the times that Jesus uses the word to see if anything interesting is discovered.

Information sign More: Greek: rough and smooth breathing
2. Defining a definition
The ancient Greek word (rough breathing) "ὅρος" ≈ "boundary, definition" and is the source of the English word "horizon".
Aristotle often emphasizes the importance of "definitions" in identifying bad logic. Of course, Aristotle then defines what he means by a "definition".

English: A definition is a phrase indicating the essence of something. (Loeb#391, p. 281)
Greek: Ἔστι δ´ ὅρος μὲν λόγος ὁ τὸ τί ἦν εἶναι σημαίνων, [Topica, 101b-102a]
The aspirated rough breathing comes through in Latin and into English in the sound of the letter "h". Aristotle used this word for "definition" many times. This was only used for a while in the first century BC and discontinued but persists in ancient Greek notations to this day.

Information sign More: Equivocation deception between names and meanings
Information sign More: Aristotle
Information sign More: Matthew Mustard seeds and moving mountains
3. Mountains of Oreo cookies
The ancient Greek word (smooth breathing) "ὄρος" ≈ "mountain".

Ancient Greek appears to have had no word for hill. They lived in a very mountainous area. Note that the English often uses "hills" where the Greek uses "mountains". The English state named "Montana" is from the Spanish word "montaña" ≈ "mountain" which is from the Latin word "montanus" ≈ "mountain".

Oreo cookies
The origin of the name "Oreo" in "Oreo cookie" is unknown.

One idea (there are others) is that it came from the Greek word for "mountain".

Aristotle uses the word for "mountain" often in his work on Meteorology.
English: From Pyrene (this is a mountain range towards the equinoctial sunset in Celtice) there flow the Istrus and the Tartessus (Loeb#397, p. 97)
Greek: ἐκ δὲ τῆς Πυρήνης (τοῦτο δ' ἐστὶν ὄρος πρὸς δυσμὴν ἰσημερινὴν ἐν τῇ Κελτικῇ) ῥέουσιν ὅ τε Ἴστρος καὶ ὁ Ταρτησσός. [350b]
Aristotle mentions the Pyrenees mountains and the Celts as a general Greek name for what is today Spain and France. The Latin name for the Celts was the Gauls.

Information sign More: Greek: rough and smooth breathing
Information sign More: Matthew Mustard seeds and moving mountains
4. Play on words

The ancient Greek word (smooth breathing) "ὄρος" ≈ "mountain".
The ancient Greek word (rough breathing) "ὅρος" ≈ "boundary, definition".

The smooth and rough breathing were close enough to be used as play on words but had disappeared by the time of Christ.

The ancient Greek words (and sounds) merged in modern Greek as "όρος" (O-ros) ≈ "mountain, definition, boundary".

Information sign More: Greek: rough and smooth breathing
Information sign More: Matthew Mustard seeds and moving mountains
5. Aristotle: Sophistic Refutations
At the time of Aristotle, the words for "definition" and "mountain" were still somewhat distinct. This, however, does not prohibit their similarity from being used as a play on words. In the following passage in Sophistic Refutations, Aristotle uses as an example the Greek words for "definition" and "mountain".

English: For what turns on the division of words is not really ambiguous (for the expression when divided differently is not the same) unless indeed ὄρος and ὄρος, pronounced according to the breathing, constitute a single word with different meanings. (Loeb#100, p. 105)
Greek: οὐ γὰρ ὁ αὐτὸς λόγος γίνεται, διαιρούμενος, εἴπερ μὴ 〈ὡς〉 καὶ τὸ "ὄρος", [καὶ] "ὅρος" τῇ προσῳδίᾳ λεχθέν, σημαίνει ἕτερον. Aristotle: Sophistic Refutations [178a]
The ancient Greek word "προσῳδία" ≈ "song with accompaniment, tone or pitch of a word, diacritic mark" and comes from two Greek words.
6. Aristotle: Sophistic Refutations
Aristotle continues. At the time, the spoken words were not the same as the written words that appear to be the same. This distinction was in Attic Greek but had disappeared by the time of the GNT.

English: (In written language a word is the same when it is written with the same letters and in the same manner, though people now put in additional signs, but the words when spoken are not the same.) (Loeb#100, p. 105)
Greek: Ἀλλ´ ἐν μὲν τοῖς γεγραμμένοις τὸ αὐτὸ 〈τὸ〉 ὄνομα, ὅταν ἐκ τῶν αὐτῶν στοιχείων γεγραμμένον ᾖ καὶ ὡσαύτως (κἀκεῖ δ´ ἤδη παράσημα ποιοῦνται), τὰ δὲ φθεγγόμενα οὐ ταὐτά. Aristotle: Sophistic Refutations [178a]
7. Aristotle: Sophistic Refutations
There are parts of the tone or pitch of a word that do not appear to make a difference in most people understanding what is being said.

English: for it does not seem ever, or seems very seldom, to alter the significance of the word whether it is pronounced with a lower or higher pitch. (Loeb#100, p. 42)
Greek: Ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ τῶν παρὰ τὴν προσῳδίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἄλλο δοκεῖ σημαίνειν ἀνιέμενος καὶ ἐπιτεινόμενος ὁ λόγος, ἐπ´ οὐδενὸς ἢ οὐκ ἐπὶ πολλῶν. Aristotle: Sophistic Refutations [169b]
The Greek for "significance" is that of "meaning" or "semantics".

Aristotle is concerned with using similarities of words to deceive or mislead in logical or dialectic arguments that are not valid.
8. New Testament Greek: B. G. McClean
Book: New Testament Greek: An Introduction Book: Hellenistic and Biblical Greek: A Graduated Reader
In his book, New Testament Greek: An Introduction (2011, Cambridge University Press), (then) Professor of New Testament Language and Literature at Knox College, University of Toronto, B. H. McLean explains some of the rough and smooth breathing issues in the GNT.
Using the Latin-based Erasmian system of pronunciation makes it hard to "hear" play on words in the Greek.
9. Greek alphabet
Greek gematria
The Greeks used the alphabet from the Phoneticians as did the Hebrews.

The Greeks added vowels to the alphabet.

The Greeks dropped letters that, to them, had the same sound.
The digamma was kept for it's numerical value of six. The most famous and only digamma in the GNT is the six in 666 as (lowercase) «χξϚ» or (uppercase) «ΧΞϜ».

Information sign More: Greek digamma
Information sign More: Hebrew alphabet
10. New Testament Greek: B. G. McClean
Book: New Testament Greek: An Introduction Book: Hellenistic and Biblical Greek: A Graduated Reader
Note that any play on word meanings would ignore any such artificial aspiration, such as "mountain" and "definition".
11. Strongs - mountain
12. Usage - mountain
*G3735 *64 ὄρος (or'-os) : probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear"; perhaps akin to G142; compare G3733); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): -hill, mount(-ain).
Word usage per chapter Words: ορει=11 ορεσιν=4 ορεων ορη=7 ορος=29 ορους=12

13. Jesus speaks
Let us investigate the use of the word for "mountain" or "definition" in the GNT in Matthew as spoken by Jesus and not, for example, as used in the connecting commentary by Matthew.

The verses about "moving" this "mountain" and "moving" this "mountain" into the "sea" appear to refer to Rome and Constantine in the fourth century (empires as "mountains") and, perhaps, Jerome late in the fourth century (words and doctrine as "definitions").

Move this mountain Move this empire
14. Matthew Move a mountain
Verse routeMatthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. [kjv]
Verse routeο δε λεγει αυτοις δια την ολιγοπιστιαν υμων αμην γαρ λεγω υμιν εαν εχητε πιστιν ως κοκκον σιναπεως ερειτε τω ορει τουτω μεταβα ενθεν εκει και μεταβησεται και ουδεν αδυνατησει υμιν [gnt]

Move this mountain Move this empire

If Rome is considered a "mountain", as in an "empire", then Constantine, through "faith", did "move" the "mountain" of Rome to Constantinople.
15. Latin Vulgate conjecture
Verse routeMatthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. [kjv]

Move this empire Move this doctrine
Consider the play on words between "mountain" and "definition" in Greek.
Late in the fourth century, Jerome translated what was to be called the Latin Vulgate. The definitions of many words of the "doctrine" or "teaching" were "moved" to be something other than what appears to have been meant in the Greek. The woman "encrypted" or "baked" false doctrine (leaven) with true doctrine (wheat flour) until it was all mixed together but appeared as true doctrine.

The moving of this mountain (i.e., many definitions) did put that present and future church in a position to do what might have been considered "impossible" before that time.


Information sign More: Matthew 13: Fourth kingdom parable: measures three
Information sign More: Teaching and learning sound and healthy doctrine
Information sign More: Matthew Mustard seeds and moving mountains
16. Matthew 21:21 Mountain into the sea
Verse routeMatthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. [kjv]
Verse routeαποκριθεις δε ο ιησους ειπεν αυτοις αμην λεγω υμιν εαν εχητε πιστιν και μη διακριθητε ου μονον το της συκης ποιησετε αλλα καν τω ορει τουτω ειπητε αρθητι και βληθητι εις την θαλασσαν γενησεται [gnt]

If Constantine (and Rome) did not divide, as "through division" or "discernment", translated "doubt" in the KJV (King James Version), into east and west, that entire "mountain" could have been moved into the "sea".

Information sign More: Matthew Mustard seeds and moving mountains
17. Matthew 24:15
Jesus uses the word "mountains" in the Olivet Discourse where Jesus talks about "all of it" and the "end of times". Here is the verse before.

Verse routeMatthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) [kjv]
Verse routeοταν ουν ιδητε το βδελυγμα της ερημωσεως το ρηθεν δια δανιηλ του προφητου εστος εν τοπω αγιω ο αναγινωσκων νοειτω [gnt]

It does appear that those who want to understand this need to "read". It appears that this "understanding" is for practical purpose and not for the purpose, say, of "salvation".

The Greek for "see" is that of "seeing" with "understanding". Both Jesus (after) and Daniel (before) both talk about something that happened during the "silent years".

Information sign More: Apocrypha: Silent years
The next verse contains the word "mountain".
18. Matthew 24:16-17 Mountains
Verse routeMatthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [kjv]
Verse routeτοτε οι εν τη ιουδαια φευγετωσαν εις τα ορη [gnt]
Verse route24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [kjv]
Verse routeο επι του δωματος μη καταβατω αραι τα εκ της οικιας αυτου [gnt]

This verse sequence is part of the Olivet Discourse where Jesus talks about "all of it" and the "end of times" and appears to refer to an actual "mountain". It is not clear how one would flee to a "definition". It is unclear how one would flee "into" the "mountains" rather than "on" the "mountains" (some Greek manuscripts)

What is often attributed to Koine Greek idioms appears to be a bias as to what the translators (and Greek scholars) want the text to say - often made worse by changes in the English language over time.

Information sign More: Matthew 24: The Olivet discourse
19. Matthew 24:15
   Matthew 24:15 
 All 
KJV: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Greek: οταν ουν ιδητε το βδελυγμα της ερημωσεως το ρηθεν δια δανιηλ του προφητου εστος εν τοπω αγιω ο αναγινωσκων νοειτω
20. Matthew 24:16
   Matthew 24:16 
 All 
KJV: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Greek: τοτε οι εν τη ιουδαια φευγετωσαν επι εις τα ορη
21. Matthew 24:17
   Matthew 24:17 
 All 
KJV: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Greek: ο επι του δωματος μη καταβαινετω καταβατω αραι τι τα εκ της οικιας αυτου



22. Matthew 5:13-16 Context
In this context, we are only interested only in the "mountain". The English uses "hill".
pigs Pig
Verse routeMatthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. [kjv]
fish Fish
Verse route5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. [kjv]
birds Bird
Verse route5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. [kjv]
sheep Sheep
Verse route5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. [kjv]

Words in these verses may be code words, have double meanings, be play on words, etc. The Greek words may have been changed, omitted, etc. [top-down view]

Information sign More: Matthew 5:13-16 Animal crackers
23. Sheep as walking before
Sheep
Sheep have a tendency to "walk before" or "wander away". The ancient Greek word "πρόβατα" ≈ "sheep" and has two parts.
 
What musical instrument is played by two sheep?


Information sign More: Matthew 25: 31-46 Parable of the sheep and goats
24. Planets as wandering stars
Verse routeMatthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [kjv]
Verse routeπολλοι γαρ ελευσονται επι τω ονοματι μου λεγοντες εγω ειμι ο χριστος και πολλους πλανησουσιν [gnt]

Planets in ancient times True goal False goal
How does a "sheep" know if it has gone or is going "astray"?
The ancient Greek word "πλάνη" ≈ "wandering, roaming" and, figuratively, "going astray" or "in error". as in wandering off-target. The English word "planet" comes from this Greek word as a shortened form of "wandering star" since planets were considered wandering stars. The modern Greek word "πλανήτης" (pla-NEE-tees) ≈ "planet".

Discuss: Consider the billions of people throughout the ages. Are the "many" a few insurrectionists from the first century or so who led a few thousand followers?


Information sign More: Planets as wandering stars
25. Matthew 18:12 Sheep and mountains
Verse routeMatthew 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? [kjv]
Verse routeτι υμιν δοκει εαν γενηται τινι ανθρωπω εκατον προβατα και πλανηθη εν εξ αυτων ουχι αφησει τα ενενηκοντα εννεα επι τα ορη και πορευθεις ζητει το πλανωμενον [gnt]

100 sheep

100=99+1
The Greek says "man" and not "shepherd". In the parables, Jesus uses (and then explains) the code word "man" to refer to "Jesus as God".

The Greek says "on/onto" the "mountains".

Why is the "hundred" important? Might it somehow relate to the Roman "centurions"?
Are the 99 in danger when the "man" "leaves"? The Greek for "leave" is that of "let go" or "forgive".

How does Jesus reinforces the "ninety and nine" to avoid the "one cookie rule"?

Information sign More: Parables and secret codes used and explained by Jesus
Information sign More: Matthew 13: Second kingdom parable: fault-tolerant approach to the toleration paradox
Information sign More: Matthew 18:12-14 Sheep astray on a mountain of definitions
26. Matthew 18:6 Offending little ones
Verse routeMatthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. [kjv]
Verse routeος δ αν σκανδαλιση ενα των μικρων τουτων των πιστευοντων εις εμε συμφερει αυτω ινα κρεμασθη μυλος ονικος περι τον τραχηλον αυτου και καταποντισθη εν τω πελαγει της θαλασσης [gnt]

Which meaning fits the best?
Many today associate this verse with "child abuse". However, the word for "little ones" can have a double meaning of new believers in Christ. Does this increase the responsibility of pastors, teachers, etc.? In what way?

Note that the "depth of the sea" is, in Greek, the "sea of the sea".

Information sign More: Russian and Greek roots of the term Gulag Archipelago
Information sign More: Matthew 11:6: Idiomatic misinterpretations that offend
27. Matthew 10:42
Verse routeMatthew 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. [kjv]
Verse routeκαι ος αν ποτιση ενα των μικρων τουτων ποτηριον ψυχρου μονον εις ονομα μαθητου αμην λεγω υμιν ου μη απολεση τον μισθον αυτου [gnt]

Jesus uses the idea of "little ones" to refer to believers of all ages.

The "water" is inferred in the Greek as "cold water" from "cold" and the word "drink".

What exactly does this verse mean?

What does a "cup" of "cold", perhaps water, mean?

Is giving a "little one" a "cup" of "cold", perhaps water, good or bad?

Information sign More: Revelation 3:15-16 Zesty hot and frigid cold
28. End of page
by RS  admin@creationpie.com : 1024 x 640