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Matthew 18:15-17 Conflicting and faulty resolutions
1. Matthew 18:15
KJV: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Greek: εαν δε αμαρτηση εις σε ο αδελφος σου υπαγε και ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου
Latin: si autem peccaverit in te frater tuus vade et corripe eum inter te et ipsum solum si te audierit lucratus es fratrem tuum
Wessex: Soðlice gyf þin broðer synegeð wið þe. gä & styr hine. be-twuxe þe & hym sylfen. Gyf he þe ge-hyrð. þu ge-eðstaþelest þinne broðor.
Wycliffe: But if thi brother synneth ayens thee, go thou, and repreue hym, bitwixe thee and hym aloone; if he herith thee, thou hast wonnun thi brother.
Luther: Sündiget aber dein Bruder an dir, so gehe hin und strafe ihn zwischen dir und ihm allein. Höret er dich, so hast du deinen Bruder gewonnen.
2. Matthew 18:16
KJV: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Greek: εαν δε μη ακουση παραλαβε μετα σου ετι ενα η δυο ινα επι στοματος δυο μαρτυρων η τριων σταθη παν ρημα
Latin: si autem non te audierit adhibe tecum adhuc unum vel duos ut in ore duorum testium vel trium stet omne verbum
Wessex: Gyf he þe ne ge-hyrð. nym þanne gyt enne to þe oððe twegen. þaet aelc word stande on tweigre oððe on þreora ge-witnysse.
Wycliffe: And if he herith thee not, take with thee oon or tweyne, that euery word stonde in the mouth of tweyne or thre witnessis.
Spanish: Mas si no te oyere, toma aún contigo uno o dos, para que en boca de dos o tres testigos conste toda palabra.
3. Matthew 18:17
KJV: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Greek: εαν δε παρακουση αυτων ειπε ειπον τη εκκλησια εαν δε και της εκκλησιας παρακουση εστω σοι ωσπερ ο εθνικος και ο τελωνης
Latin: quod si non audierit eos dic ecclesiae si autem et ecclesiam non audierit sit tibi sicut ethnicus et publicanus
Wycliffe: And if he herith not hem, seie thou to the chirche. But if he herith not the chirche, be he as an hethen and a pupplican to thee.
4. Matthew 18:1 Greatest and least in the kingdom
Matthew 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? [kjv]
εν εκεινη τη ωρα προσηλθον οι μαθηται τω ιησου λεγοντες τις αρα μειζων εστιν εν τη βασιλεια των ουρανων [gnt]
Who is "greatest"?
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Who is "least"?
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Since chapter 17 is concerned with
"greatness" and chapter 18 starts with the question to Jesus of who is
"greatest", the question might have been motivated by chapter 17 and then that idea follows through with everything Jesus says in finishing this discourse in chapter 18.
In modern times, the "
great" are ofter called the "
elite".
5. Matthew 18:15-17 Verses with Greek
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
εαν δε μη ακουση παραλαβε μετα σου ετι ενα η δυο ινα επι στοματος δυο μαρτυρων η τριων σταθη παν ρημα [gnt]
18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
εαν δε παρακουση αυτων ειπον τη εκκλησια εαν δε και της εκκλησιας παρακουση εστω σοι ωσπερ ο εθνικος και ο τελωνης [gnt]
6. Matthew 18:15-17 Conflicting and faulty resolutions
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
Whenever there is a group of humans in close proximity, there will be conflict. In any distributed system, whether human or machine, there should be a conflict resolution protocol.
Jesus presents a fault tolerant conflict resolution protocol for groups of believers. The world has taken the opposite approach to conflict resolution within organizations.
The
"against thee" and
"his fault" were added in the
TR (Textus Receptus).
Omitting these words puts what Jesus says in line with the Lord's Prayer and the following verses on church conflict.
Including them creates some logical continuity issues.
7. Relationships and associations
A one-to-many is handled in the same way as a many-to-one (only from the other direction).
Many sheep and one gone astray.
Two or three go to one.
One body and many parts.
Greatest and/or least among many.
Master with many servants, servant with many under him.
8. Connection scalability and conflict
In any distributed system, the number of connections grows as the square of the number of nodes (e.g., people).
As the system (of members and groups) grows, there will invariably be
conflict (between people) or
errors (between system components). Fundamental rules:
Love God (individual)
Love neighbor as yourself (members and groups)
Proclaim truth actively but react passively
There needs to be some
conflict resolution protocol between/among processes.
9. Computer systems
In computer systems, there needs to be a way to help detect errors and reach consensus. This was done in the Space Shuttle system. A problem developed to understand this is called the "
Byzantine Generals problem".
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Details are left as a future topic.
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10. People systems
Likewise, in any distributed system of people there needs to be some resolution conflict protocol. In civil and criminal matters (in a democracy), this is usually a court system.
The church as a gathering of believers needs a resolution conflict protocol. Jesus appears to provide some if this in this and other discourses relating to the church as a gathering of believers.
11. Matthew 18:15 No fault
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The
KJV (King James Version) adds
"against thee" which is not in (some) Greek manuscripts and adds
"his fault" as inferred. The definition of
"trespass" or
"sin" as being a "
fault" depends on
point of view.
This could be no fault of anyone, as in no-fault insurance,
Discuss: Is there such a thing as no-fault sin?
Consider the "indulgences" of the Middle Ages by the Catholic Church.
We will assume that the advice for "
brother" is the same as for "
sister" within the church as a gathering of believers.
12. Matthew 11:15 Hearing test
Matthew 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. [kjv]
ο εχων ωτα ακουετω [gnt]
Gather the facts and get them right. This may not be easy. If you pluck out your "
eyes", would you be able to "
see"? If, by extension, you pluck out your "
ears", would you be able to "
hear"? This is an example of a many-to-one relationship or association.
Story:
I was getting tired of getting the wife admitting that she had a hearing problem. Aside: A hearing problem, not a listening problem.
One day, I decided to gather proof with which to confront her (in love, of course).
13. Matthew 11:15
KJV: He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Greek: ο εχων ωτα ακουειν ακουετω
Latin: qui habet aures audiendi audiat
Wessex: se þe earan haebbe to geherene ge-hyre.
Wycliffe: He that hath eris of heryng, here he.
Tyndale: He yt hathe eares to heare let him heare.
Luther: Wer Ohren hat zu hören, der höre!
14. The hearing test
Coming home, I quietly opened the door. She was working quietly in the kitchen two rooms away. Just inside the door, I said softly, "Dear, can you hear me?".
No response. Just as I thought. A hearing issue.
15. The hearing test
I went to the next room and did the same thing again, softly. "Dear, can you hear me?".
No response. This is worse than I suspected. Now I had proof.
16. The hearing test
Finally, I got right outside the room she was in and said softly. "Dear, can you hear me?".
Finally, a response, as I heard her say, "For the third time, yes!".
As was said, gather the facts and get them right. This may not be easy.
17. User interfaces
The same types of issues arise in user interfaces in computer systems.
Are you sure you want to do this?
Are you really sure you want to do this?
Are you really really sure you want to do this?
... and so on ...
18. David
The prophet Nathan used a story to get David to see that he had sinned. Nathan told David about a rich shepherd who took a poor shepherds only sheep. David proclaimed judgment against that rich shepherd. Nathan than explained how, in analogy, David was that rich shepherd.
David thus pronounced a reflexive judgment on himself.
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Details are left as a future topic.
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19. Prophets
Prophets must be sensitive in delivering their prophecies - or
forth telling.
Nathan was careful in dealing with David.
So too was Daniel when dealing with Nebuchadnezzar. Interestingly, the dream Daniel interpreted was not difficult to interpret but required courage to bring the bad news to the boss. So much so that the other dream interpreters claimed it was too hard for them to interpret.
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Details are left as a future topic.
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20. Debugging software
One of the difficult parts of developing and debugging software is that errors can happen it many levels.
Is it a hardware issue? Is the processor working right.
Is it a software issue? At what level? Is the operating system working right? Is the compiler working right? Is the editor working right?
Is it a data issue?
Is it a user issue? Which user? Is it an "I D ten T error" (in short form "ID1OT error").
Is the designed solution able to solve the desired problem?
Is it some interaction between any or all of the above?
21. Cars
It has been said that the biggest design fault in a car is often the "
nut behind the wheel".
22. Kicking
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month. Teddy Roosevelt (26th President of the United States)
23. Three errors puzzle
What is not there may be important?
Consider this self-referential sentence that has real issues. First, find them. Then ask yourself the following question. How easy is it to fix them?
24. Matthew and John Trespass and sin
25. 1 John 5:17
KJV: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Greek: πασα αδικια αμαρτια εστιν και εστιν αμαρτια ου προς θανατον
26. Logical arguments
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? [kjv]
τις εξ υμων ελεγχει με περι αμαρτιας ει αληθειαν λεγω δια τι υμεις ου πιστευετε μοι [gnt]
… arguit … [v]
This is not just
"tell"! The ancient Greek word
"ἐλέγχω" ≈ "disgrace, question, test" which is from the ancient Greek word
"ἔλεγχος" ≈ "refute, reproach" as in providing an
argument of disproof. The Latin word
"arguo" ≈ "clarify, show, reprove, blame" and is the source of the English word
"argument".
*G1651 *18 ἐλέγχω (el-eng'-kho) : of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:--convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
It is from the
PIE (Proto Indo-European) root
"HLENG" ≈ "accuse, scold".
27. Strongs - reason with
- *G1651 *18 ἐλέγχω (el-eng'-kho) : of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:--convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
- ελεγχε *3
- 1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others ...
- Titus 1:13 ... is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that ...
- Titus 2:15 ... and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. ...
- ελεγξον *2
- Matthew 18:15 ... go and tell him his fault between thee ...
- 2 Timothy 4:2 ... be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with ...
- ελεγχομενος *2
- Luke 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for ...
- Hebrews 12:5 ... of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
- ελεγχομενοι *2
- John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, ...
- James 2:9 ... ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
- ελεγχετε *2
- Ephesians 5:11 ... of darkness, but rather reprove them.
- Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
- ελεγχθη
- John 3:20 ... lest his deeds should be reproved.
- ελεγξει
- John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, ...
- ελεγχεται
- 1 Corinthians 14:24 ... that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged ...
- ελεγχομενα
- Ephesians 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: ...
- ελεγχειν
- Titus 1:9 ... both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
- ελεγξαι
- Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince ...
- ελεγχω
- Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous ...
28. Usage - reason with
*G1651 *18 ἐλέγχω (el-eng'-kho) : of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:--convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
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Words: ελεγξαι ελεγξει ελεγξον=2 ελεγχε=3 ελεγχειν ελεγχεται ελεγχετε=2 ελεγχθη ελεγχομενα ελεγχομενοι=2 ελεγχομενος=2 ελεγχω
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29. Matthew 18:15 Refutations
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The
"refutation" in the work "
Sophistic Refutations" by Aristotle uses this word for
"logical reasoning". The ancient Greek title
"Σοφιστικοί έλεγχοι" ≈ "Sophistic Refutations".
Aristotle is concerned with using "
good logical reasoning" to
"refute" "
bad logical reasoning" as in "
deception", (deliberate or otherwise).
30. Matthew 18:15 Argument
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The ancient Greek word
"ἐλέγχω" ≈ "disgrace, question, test". The
"tell" requires some type of logical reasoning or
"convincing argument" as contrasted with "
rebuke" or "
accusations".
31. John 8:46
KJV: Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Greek: τις εξ υμων ελεγχει με περι αμαρτιας ει δε αληθειαν λεγω δια τι υμεις ου πιστευετε μοι
Latin: quis ex vobis arguit me de peccato si veritatem dico quare vos non creditis mihi
Wessex: Hwylch eower a-scuneð me for synne. Gif ich soð segge. hwy ne ge-lefe ge me.
Wycliffe: Who of you schal repreue me of synne? if Y sey treuthe, whi bileuen ye not to me?
Tyndale: Which of you can rebuke me of synne? If I saye ye trueth why do not ye beleve me?
Gothic: hvas izwara gasakith mik bi frawaurht? thande sunja qitha, duhve ni galaubeith mis?
32. Strongs - reprove
- *G1651 *18 ἐλέγχω (el-eng'-kho) : of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:--convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
- ελεγχε *3
- 1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others ...
- Titus 1:13 ... is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that ...
- Titus 2:15 ... and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. ...
- ελεγξον *2
- Matthew 18:15 ... go and tell him his fault between thee ...
- 2 Timothy 4:2 ... be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with ...
- ελεγχομενος *2
- Luke 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for ...
- Hebrews 12:5 ... of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
- ελεγχομενοι *2
- John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, ...
- James 2:9 ... ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
- ελεγχετε *2
- Ephesians 5:11 ... of darkness, but rather reprove them.
- Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
- ελεγχθη
- John 3:20 ... lest his deeds should be reproved.
- ελεγξει
- John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, ...
- ελεγχεται
- 1 Corinthians 14:24 ... that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged ...
- ελεγχομενα
- Ephesians 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: ...
- ελεγχειν
- Titus 1:9 ... both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
- ελεγξαι
- Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince ...
- ελεγχω
- Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous ...
33. Matthew 18:15 Alone
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The word
"one" is not used as that has a special meaning in this (and some other) passages.
The ancient Greek word
"μόνος" ≈ "alone, solitary, only, unique" and is the source of the English words starting with
"mono" such as "
monotone", "
monopoly", etc.
34. Matthew 18:15 Win-win but could be right or wrong
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The ancient Greek word
"κέρδος" ≈ "wiles, craftiness, desire for profit, advantage" and is an
opposite of
"ζημία" ≈ "loss, damage, penalty".
This verse does
not so much say that the first brother
gained the other brother but, instead, says that these two brothers are
in agreement as in a
win-win situation as a
commutative relationship without saying whether they are both correct or incorrect. Viewpoint is important.
The relationship here appears to be
symmetric. This is
not a
asymmetric "
win-lose" situation. It is a possible
symmetric "
win-win" situation. If
in agreement, They have
both gained or won.
35. Matthew 5:9 Division and unity
In essentials unity,
In nonessentials liberty,
In all things charity.
Attributed to Augustine of Hippo (354-430), John Wesley (1702-1791), and others.
The
danger, however, is that if a
compromise is made to "
make peace", it may not be in line with God's law, glory, opinion, righteousness, etc.
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [kjv]
μακαριοι οι ειρηνοποιοι οτι αυτοι υιοι θεου κληθησονται [gnt]
Eadige … sibsume… genemnde. [wes]
Selig … Friedfertigen… heißen. [lu]
Discuss: Provide historical or contemporary examples of two (or more) sides agreeing to something that is
not in line with the laws of God.
36. Matthew 5:9 Making and appeasing peaceful peacemakers
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [kjv]
μακαριοι οι ειρηνοποιοι οτι αυτοι υιοι θεου κληθησονται [gnt]
What is peace? What is a peacemaker?
Is being a peacemaker good or bad?
Is making something good or bad?
Who is it doing the calling?
Is there any
conscientious objection to continuing on the topic of making
peace? Let us
piece together some ideas.
These questions arise from Matthew 5:9 in the Beatitudes, given on a mountain to the disciples with both
altitude and
attitude. Is that right,
dude?
37. Strongs - gain
- *G2770 *16 κερδαίνω (ker-dah'-ee-no) : from G2771; to gain (literally or figuratively):--(get) gain, win.
- κερδησω *5
- 1 Corinthians 9:19 ... servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
- 1 Corinthians 9:20 ... a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
- 1 Corinthians 9:22 ... as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things ...
- Philippians 3:8 ... do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
- εκερδησα *2
- Matthew 25:20 ... five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five ...
- Matthew 25:22 ... two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents ...
- κερδησαι *2
- Mark 8:36 ... shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, ...
- Acts 27:21 ... from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss.
- κερδηση
- Matthew 16:26 ... a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, ...
- εκερδησας
- Matthew 18:15 ... if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
- εκερδησεν
- Matthew 25:17 ... had received two, he also gained other two.
- κερδησας
- Luke 9:25 ... is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and ...
- κερδανω
- 1 Corinthians 9:21 ... under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
- κερδησομεν
- James 4:13 ... and buy and sell, and get gain:
- κερδηθησονται
- 1 Peter 3:1 ... the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
38. Usage - gain
*G2770 *16 κερδαίνω (ker-dah'-ee-no) : from G2771; to gain (literally or figuratively):--(get) gain, win.
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Words: εκερδησα=2 εκερδησας εκερδησεν κερδανω κερδηθησονται κερδησαι=2 κερδησας κερδηση κερδησομεν κερδησω=5
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39. Matthew 18:15 Trespass and sin
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The word for
"trespass" is the Greek word for
"sin". The be "
sinned" against requires that there be some clear definition of
"sin". From the Greek word itself, this can be taken to be anything that is not a positive witness for God (and Jesus as God).
This verse does not say that the person is justified in taking the perceived or actual
"trespass" or
"sin" as being against God. The person may be "
offended" in the sense of misinterpreting what has happened. That is the reason a logical discussion is needed.
If the two cannot logically resolve the situation, the situation is escalated to "
fact-gathering".
40. Matthew 18:15 Agreement
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
The
TR adds the "
against thee" which breaks the model. A
"sin" is, literally, anything that is
"not a witness". The Greek for
"gained" means that the two are in
"agreement" since they have
"gained" each other in a
win-win situation.
The verse says nothing about which side was "
right" or "
wrong".
In a
simple analysis, looking at only
one issue, there are
four possibilities. Cases 2 and 3 are
less likely.
41. Matthew 18:15 Agreement
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
There are
two cases that are
more likely in the case of
"agreement" where each brother has
"gained" the other brother in a
win-win situation. Would a compromise in cases 2 and 3 be considered a
win-win situation?
The verse says
nothing about which side was "
right" or "
wrong".
42. Matthew 18:16 Witnesses
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
εαν δε μη ακουση παραλαβε μετα σου ετι ενα η δυο ινα επι στοματος δυο μαρτυρων η τριων σταθη παν ρημα [gnt]
The
"hearing" is for understanding, as in
"I hear you" meaning
"I understand you".
This is a fact-gathering stage to see where someone
"stands".
No decision is to be made. The ancient Greek word
"σταθμός" ≈ "standing place". The modern Greek word
"σταθμός" (stath-MOS) ≈ "station" as in a train station.
Every spoken word needs to be "
established" or "
documented". No collective decision is made. For fans of Monty Python's Flying Circus, this is
not to be like the "
Argument Clinic" sketch (featuring John Cleese and Michael Palin) where they argue for the sake of arguing as in a "
meta argument".
43. Matthew 18:5 Accept goes both ways
Matthew 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. [kjv]
και ος εαν δεξηται εν παιδιον τοιουτο επι τω ονοματι μου εμε δεχεται [gnt]
This
"little child" could be anyone. The most important
"little child" is
you (one cookie rule).
You are that
"one" "little child"! What happens if
you as that
"one" "little child" do not
"receive" or
"accept" "on" the "
name" of Jesus? Including the
"if" in the translation makes this correspondence more clear.
Paraphrase:
And if you receive/accept, as a little child, on the name of me (Jesus), you receive/accept me (Jesus).
The
"accept" or
"receive" is used
twice in a
commutative or
both ways relationship. That is,
both of the
two, Jesus and
you, must "
agree" for the relationship to be valid. Otherwise, it will
not be completed or done. The two are "
glued" together.
44. Matthew 18:16 Mouths and witnesses
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
What it appears to say:
on the (mouth of two) or (witnesses three). It appears to matter whether
Jesus has been
"received" or
"accepted" (
both ways) as a
"little child" or
"believer" (of any age) as to the number of witnesses.
Jesus counts as "
one"
other, "
one" witness, but
not as a "
mouth".
The phrase of "
every spoken word" is used in the "
idle words" which relates to the "
unpardonable sin".
45. Matthew 18:16 Mouths and witnesses
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
εαν δε μη ακουση παραλαβε μετα σου ετι ενα η δυο ινα επι στοματος δυο μαρτυρων η τριων σταθη παν ρημα [gnt]
English (Greek word order):
If but not hearing-beyond taking after you yet one or two in order to on mouth two witnesses or three establish every spoken word.
It is well established in English that
good food and drink does
not mean
good food and good drink.
Translated: in the mouth of (two or three witnesses).
What it appears to say: on the (of mouth two) or (of witnesses three).
How might this verse be better understood?
Others to take along: 1 or 2. It does not say "of you".
Mouths 2 or witnesses 3.
46. Matthew Every spoken word
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
εαν δε μη ακουση παραλαβε μετα σου ετι ενα η δυο ινα επι στοματος δυο μαρτυρων η τριων σταθη παν ρημα [gnt]
12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [kjv]
λεγω δε υμιν οτι παν ρημα αργον ο λαλησουσιν οι ανθρωποι αποδωσουσιν περι αυτου λογον εν ημερα κρισεως [gnt]
The
"every word" is the same Greek phrase used in "
every idle word" in Matthew 12 and means
"spoken words". The ancient Greek word
"παν ῥημα" ≈ "every spoken word". The
KJV changes the Greek word order from "
every word idle" to "
every idle word".
47. Luke 1:37
Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. [kjv]
οτι ουκ αδυνατησει παρα του θεου παν ρημα [gnt]
… inpossibile … omne verbum [v]
… aelch word … [wes]
… euery word … [wy]
… ainhun waurde. [got]
… всяк глаголгол. [ocs]
… никакое слово. [rus]
Paraphrase:
That (it is) not impossible (potentially possible) beyond every spoken word of God. (
potentially possible means that it has not happened yet)
About the 16th c., the "
every (spoken) word of God"
disappeared. The "
of God" was changed to "
with God".
Before this, the following were used.
4th century Latin Vulgate as "omne verbum" ≈ "every word".
5th century Wulfila Gothic as "ainhun waurde" ≈ "each word".
8th century Old Church Slavonic as "всяк глаголгол" ≈ "each word".
10th century Wessex Gospels Old English as "aelch word" ≈ "each word".
48. James 4:4 Enemies of God
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. [kjv]
μοιχαλιδες ουκ οιδατε οτι η φιλια του κοσμου εχθρα του θεου εστιν ος εαν ουν βουληθη φιλος ειναι του κοσμου εχθρος του θεου καθισταται [gnt]
Does "God" consider the "world" an enemy?
Does the "world" consider "God" an enemy?
This appears to be a (not uncommon)
converse logical error by James.
The world considers God an enemy does not mean that God considers the world an enemy.
The Greek phrase «
του θεου» appears in
496 verses in the
GNT (Greek New Testament). In
494 verses this is translated as "
of God" or "
of ... God" (with an adjective, etc.). There are only
2 places where this is translated "
with god". These are translated as "
with God" for reasons that are not clear.
49. Strongs - with
- *G4487 *65 ῥήμα (hray'-mah) : from G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specially),; by implication, a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever:--+ evil, + nothing, saying, word.
- ρηματα *26
- Luke 1:65 ... and all these sayings were noised abroad throughout all ...
- Luke 2:19 ... kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
- Luke 2:51 ... kept all these sayings in her heart.
- Luke 7:1 ... he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, ...
- Luke 24:11 And their words seemed to them ...
- John 3:34 ... God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God ...
- John 6:63 ... the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak ...
- John 6:68 ... whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
- John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, ...
- John 10:21 ... These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil ...
- John 12:48 ... receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: ...
- John 14:10 ... the Father in me? the words that I speak ...
- John 15:7 ... me, and my words abide in you, ...
- John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; ...
- Acts 2:14 ... and hearken to my words:
- Acts 5:20 ... the temple to the people all the words of this life.
- Acts 6:11 ... him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
- Acts 6:13 ... not to speak blasphemous words against this holy ...
- Acts 10:22 ... house, and to hear words of thee.
- Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell ...
- Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and ...
- Acts 13:42 ... the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 16:38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, ...
- Acts 26:25 ... Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
- Romans 10:18 ... the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
- 2 Corinthians 12:4 ... and heard unspeakable words, which it is not ...
- ρημα *22
- Matthew 12:36 ... That every idle word that men shall speak, ...
- Matthew 18:16 ... three witnesses every word may be established.
- Matthew 27:14 ... to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.
- Mark 9:32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
- Mark 14:72 ... And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said ...
- Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
- Luke 1:38 ... unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed ...
- Luke 2:15 ... and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord ...
- Luke 2:29 ... peace, according to thy word:
- Luke 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
- Luke 3:2 ... Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto ...
- Luke 9:45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.
- Luke 18:34 ... of these things: and this saying was hid from ...
- Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all ...
- Acts 28:25 ... after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy ...
- Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
- 2 Corinthians 13:1 ... witnesses shall every word be established.
- Ephesians 6:17 ... of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
- Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and ...
- 1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached ...
- ρηματος *6
- Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, ...
- Luke 2:17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning ...
- Luke 9:45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.
- Luke 20:26 ... not take hold of his words before the people: and ...
- Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, ...
- Romans 10:17 ... and hearing by the word of God.
- ρηματων *6
- Luke 24:8 And they remembered his words,
- John 12:47 ... any man hear my words, and believe not, ...
- Acts 5:32 ... his witnesses of these things; and so is also ...
- Hebrews 12:19 ... of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated ...
- 2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy ...
- Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles ...
- ρηματι *5
- Matthew 4:4 ... but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
- Luke 5:5 ... nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.
- Ephesians 5:26 ... with the washing of water by the word,
- Hebrews 1:3 ... and upholding all things by the word of his power, ...
- Hebrews 11:3 ... that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen ...
- ρημασιν
- John 5:47 ... how shall ye believe my words?
50. Usage - with
*G4487 *65 ῥήμα (hray'-mah) : from G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specially),; by implication, a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever:--+ evil, + nothing, saying, word.
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Words: ρημα=22 ρημασιν ρηματα=26 ρηματι=5 ρηματος=6 ρηματων=6
|
51. Luke 1:37 Double negative with God
Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. [kjv]
οτι ουκ αδυνατησει παρα του θεου παν ρημα [gnt]
Luke 1:37 |
Strong |
Used |
Unique |
Word |
Part of speech |
G3754 |
1282 |
1282 |
οτι |
conjunction |
G3756 |
1604 |
823 |
ουκ |
participle negative |
G101 |
2 |
2 |
αδυνατησει |
verb future active indicative 3rd person singular |
G3844 |
187 |
129 |
παρα |
preposition |
G3588 |
19706 |
2480 |
του |
article genitive singular masculine |
G2316 |
1305 |
683 |
θεου |
noun genitive singular masculine |
G3956 |
1225 |
75 |
παν |
adjective nominative singular neuter |
G4487 |
66 |
22 |
ρημα |
noun nominative singular neuter |
Note the double negative of "
not impossible" is translated as "
nothing" and "
impossible". It appears to be a fallacy that Greek always uses a double negative as emphasis.
Possible paraphrase (using all the words):
that it is (potentially) possible according to every word of God
The
KJV translates as "
with God" what would appear to be "
of God". It appears that the
idiom excuse is used to make the text say what was decided it should say. In doing so, the Greek for "
of" and for "
spoken word" were removed sometime in the Middle Ages so that the Greek "
of God every word" changed to "
with God".
|
Details are left as a future topic.
|
52. Luke 1:37
KJV: For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Greek: οτι ουκ αδυνατησει παρα τω θεω του θεου παν ρημα
Latin: quia non erit inpossibile apud Deum omne verbum
Wessex: for-þy nis aelch word mid gode unmihte-lic.
Wycliffe: for euery word schal not be inpossible anentis God.
Tyndale: for wt god can nothinge be vnpossible.
Gothic: unte nist unmahteig guda ainhun waurde.
Luther: Denn bei Gott ist kein Ding unmöglich.
Slavonic: яко не изнеможет у Бога всяк глаголгол.
Russian: ибо у Бога не останется бессильным никакое слово.
Spanish: Porque con Dios nada será imposible.
53. Hear and listen
The ancient Greek word
"ἀκούω" ≈ "hear" and assumes understanding of what is heard. It is the source of the English word words such as
"acoustic" and is cognate with the English word
"hear" and
"harken". There are those who
"hear" very well but may not "
listen" well.
In English, there is a distinction between
"hearing" (a sound) and "
listening" (with understanding). In Greek, the assumption is that one hears with understanding. If not so, that needs to be added.
A legal
"hearing" originated with the fact that such proceedings were oral in nature (and still are).
An
"audit" was originally a person listening to the reading of the (e.g., business) records to verify that those records were in order.
54. Memories
This idea of a "
hearing" and "
auditing" hearkens back to a time (as stated by historical scientist James Burke) when the memories of old people were valued.
Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. [kjv]
ο γαρ θεος ειπεν τιμα τον πατερα και την μητερα και ο κακολογων πατερα η μητερα θανατω τελευτατω [gnt]
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. [kjv]
τιμα τον πατερα σου και την μητερα ινα ευ σοι γενηται και ινα μακροχρονιος γενη επι της γης της αγαθης ης κυριος ο θεος σου διδωσιν σοι [lxx]
This commandment is actually a transitive relation over time. By honoring your father and mother you are teaching, by example, your children to honor their mother and father - which is you.
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Details are left as a future topic.
|
55. Matthew 15:4
KJV: For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Greek: ο γαρ θεος ενετειλατο λεγων ειπεν τιμα τον πατερα σου και την μητερα και ο κακολογων πατερα η μητερα θανατω τελευτατω
Latin: nam Deus dixit honora patrem et matrem et qui maledixerit patri vel matri morte moriatur
56. Exodus 20:12
KJV: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Hebrew: כבד את אביך ואת אמך למען יארכון ימיך על האדמה אשר יהוה אלהיך נתן לך׃
Greek: τιμα τον πατερα σου και την μητερα ινα ευ σοι γενηται και ινα μακροχρονιος γενη επι της γης της αγαθης ης κυριος ο θεος σου διδωσιν σοι
57. Matthew and Mark Fail to listen
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
εαν δε παρακουση αυτων ειπον τη εκκλησια εαν δε και της εκκλησιας παρακουση εστω σοι ωσπερ ο εθνικος και ο τελωνης [gnt]
The ancient Greek word
"παρακούω" ≈ "hear incidentally, overhear, misunderstand, pay no heed".
Mark 5:36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe. [kjv]
ο δε ιησους παρακουσας τον λογον λαλουμενον λεγει τω αρχισυναγωγω μη φοβου μονον πιστευε [gnt]
Did Jesus
"overhear" what was being said in Mark 5:26? Does the verse translation in Matthew 18:17 assume the church is correct?
58. Strongs - neglect to hear
- *G3878 *3 παρακούω (par-ak-oo'-o) : from G3844 and G191; to mishear, i.e. (by implication) to disobey:--neglect to hear.
- παρακουση *2
- Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be ...
- παρακουσας
- Mark 5:36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith ...
59. Usage - neglect to hear
*G3878 *3 παρακούω (par-ak-oo'-o) : from G3844 and G191; to mishear, i.e. (by implication) to disobey:--neglect to hear.
|
Words: παρακουσας παρακουση=2
|
The ancient Greek word
"παρακούω" ≈ "hear incidentally, overhear, misunderstand, pay no heed".
Jesus points out that the
prophets were killed as they
"neglected to hear" or
"paid no heed" to the king and/or the religious establishment (false prophets of the king). Anyone promoting the
truth would
"pay no heed" or
"neglect to hear" any false reasoning.
60. Mark 5:36
KJV: As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
Greek: ο δε ιησους ευθεως ακουσας παρακουσας τον λογον λαλουμενον λεγει τω αρχισυναγωγω μη φοβου μονον πιστευε
61. Luke 11:47 Prophets
Luke 11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. [kjv]
ουαι υμιν οτι οικοδομειτε τα μνημεια των προφητων οι δε πατερες υμων απεκτειναν αυτους [gnt]
… witegena … of-slogen [wes]
In the
OT (Old Testament), the true prophets were always in the minority, often alone or in very small groups, while the false prophets were present on large groups, and had the support of both the leadership and of many of the people.
What happens when a wicked king and his false prophets use the above approach on a true prophet? Obviously any such approach did not work well and, as Jesus says, these true prophets were invariably killed.
The English marketing term
"slogan" comes from the word for
"slug". The Old English word
"ofslogen" ≈ "kill" as in the Wessex verse above. Marketing campaigns like to
"slug" you with
"slogans". Notice how the hard "
g" in the Old English softened to a "
y" (or absent) sound in the Middle English as
"slowen".
62. Luke 11:47
KJV: Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Greek: ουαι υμιν οτι οικοδομειτε τα μνημεια των προφητων οι δε πατερες υμων απεκτειναν αυτους
Latin: vae vobis quia aedificatis monumenta prophetarum patres autem vestri occiderunt illos
Wessex: Wa eow þe timbrieð witegena byrigena; eowre faderes hyo of-slogen
Wycliffe: Wo to you, that bilden toumbis of profetis; and youre fadris slowen hem.
63. Matthew 18:17 Reaction
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
εαν δε παρακουση αυτων ειπον τη εκκλησια εαν δε και της εκκλησιας παρακουση εστω σοι ωσπερ ο εθνικος και ο τελωνης [gnt]
Let us go back to Matthew 18:17. Notice that there appears to be no mention of how that person should react. The only mention is that the person should "
hear" as in "
understand" what is being said.
Discussion question: Does the verse imply that the person needs to "
repent" or take some action? Explain.
64. Step 0: No conflict
The same symmetry is seen, for example, in the second kingdom parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13.
Let us look at the above method in diagram from two perspectives.
The church is going along without any major issues.
Then some (inevitable) conflict happens.
1. Action
2. Detection
3. Discussion
65. Step 1: Conflict arises
Jesus states the guidance without saying which of the two in conflict is "
right" (whatever that means). Let us look at it both ways.
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
Paraphrase:
If you think than someone has done something wrong, go and work out the details with the other person. If it is worked out, the conflict has been resolved.
Resolving a conflict does not always mean that the compromise or resolution is satisfactory to God.
Discuss: Has it ever happened historically that the individual was correct and the organization was incorrect? Provide some examples.
66. Step 2: Gather the facts
In the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church established the number of witnesses needed for each level in the hierarchy of the church. They decided that there more witnesses were needed for a cardinal than for a lowly priest or monk.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. [kjv]
Paraphrase:
If the conflict has not been resolved, take two or three along to document the arguments on both sides. If it is worked out, the conflict has been resolved.
That third person may be a "
trusted third party" trusted by both sides. The entire church does not need to know until this point.
67. Church of the Brethren
Some groups, such as the
Church of the Brethren, have policies in place that, in effect, can bring in a "
trusted third party" to listen to both sides and mediate the disagreement.
Another way is to appoint someone to act as "
Devil's Advocate", written in capital letters as a title of position in the Catholic Church, to bring out points of view with which they may not necessarily agree but are points which may be important.
This may or may not be effective in any given situation.
68. Step 3: Tell everyone
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
After the facts have been gathered, no decision is made. If there is no agreement, everyone (in the church) should be told. Each person makes their individual decision, for better or worse. [gossip, reputation]
The
"neglect to hear" means
"pays no heed" and
not "
fails to listen" to what is said. A
"bird" does not listen to others. A
true prophet listens only to God. Either could be the
"one". How does one disambiguate?
Paraphrase:
If the conflict has not been resolved, let the church know. If it is worked out, the conflict has been resolved. If it is not worked out, then separate from that person/group.
There is no book of discipline since it is not always clear who is right and who is wrong, who are wheat and who are weeds, etc.
The result may be a church split where each side stops treating them as fellow believers and starts treating them as neighbors. Jesus makes a play on words on a "holy split" near the beginning of Matthew 7.
Discuss: Do the same rules apply for a group rather than an individual?
69. Step 4: Make individual decisions
The group has been effectively split, for better or worse.
It may not be clear which group is "
right" and which group is "
wrong".
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
The separation arises from the equivalence relation "
agrees that x is a sin" applied to pairs of individuals in the group.
Each group and/or individual may feel that they are right and continue in that manner. Notice that at no point is action to be taken against this person. The Lord reserves vengeance/recompense for himself (e.g., as the Avenger of Blood).
70. Discussion
Discussion question: Provide some examples throughout history whereby the church has inappropriately decided that a person or group has "
sinned", usually against church rules, and action has been taken against that person or group when, in fact, the person or group appears to have been on a firmer Biblical foundation than the church.
71. Matthew 18:17 Heathen and publicans
The group may split more.
The Greek for "heathen" is that of an "outsider".
The Greek for "publican" is that of a "tax collector" or "public official" who would be despised.
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. [kjv]
Within the "
gathering of believers" or "
church" is a "
fellowship of believers".
Interactions from inside to outside of the gathering of believers is that of "
love your neighbor as yourself", even for "
heathen" and/or "
tax collectors".
72. Matthew 7:1-2 Separate and distance
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. [kjv]
μη κρινετε ινα μη κριθητε [gnt]
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. [kjv]
εν ω γαρ κριματι κρινετε κριθησεσθε και εν ω μετρω μετρειτε μετρηθησεται υμιν [gnt]
The
KJV translates as
"judge" the ancient Greek word
"κρίνω" ≈ "separate, distinguish" as in a
"divide" or
"separate" that results in a
discrete "
yes" or "
no" answer such as "
guilty" or "
not guilty".
The ancient Greek word
"μέτρον" ≈ "measure" represents a
continuous range of
"distance" values.
Note that, as in computer science reasoning, if there is no
"separation" then the
"distance" is not important since the
"distance" would be zero or nothing. One then need not even consider "
distance". The same type of reasoning is in the following verses having to do with "
twigs" or "
motes" and "
beams".
73. Parts of speech
Matthew 7:1 |
Strong |
Used |
Unique |
Word |
Part of speech |
G3361 |
1029 |
1021 |
μη |
participle negative |
G2919 |
112 |
9 |
κρινετε |
verb present active imperative 2nd person plural |
G2443 |
665 |
665 |
ινα |
conjunction |
G3361 |
1029 |
1021 |
μη |
participle negative |
G2919 |
112 |
3 |
κριθητε |
verb aorist passive subjunctive 2nd person plural |
Matthew 7:2 |
Strong |
Used |
Unique |
Word |
Part of speech |
G1722 |
2735 |
2735 |
εν |
preposition |
G3739 |
1398 |
121 |
ω |
relative pronoun dative singular neuter |
G1063 |
1033 |
1032 |
γαρ |
conjunction |
G2917 |
27 |
2 |
κριματι |
noun dative singular neuter |
G2919 |
112 |
9 |
κρινετε |
verb present active indicative 2nd person plural |
G2919 |
112 |
1 |
κριθησεσθε |
verb future indicative passive 2nd person plural |
G2532 |
8954 |
8954 |
και |
conjunction |
G1722 |
2735 |
2735 |
εν |
preposition |
G3739 |
1398 |
121 |
ω |
relative pronoun dative singular neuter |
G3358 |
14 |
4 |
μετρω |
noun dative singular neuter |
G3354 |
11 |
3 |
μετρειτε |
verb present active indicative 2nd person plural |
G3354 |
11 |
2 |
μετρηθησεται |
verb future passive indicative 3rd person singular |
G5210 |
1802 |
595 |
υμιν |
personal pronoun 2nd person dative plural |
Many take the second person plural and apply the rule to each person in the group. The group connection from Matthew 18:15-17 appears to apply the rule to the groups. In the Matthew 18 context (not just these verses), the phrase "
better together" can have negative consequences where "
better apart" may fit
better.
74. Blinding flash of the obvious
In perhaps a "
blinding flash of the obvious", the following connections to Matthew 7:1-2 are observed.
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. [kjv]
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. [kjv]
If you (plural, by implication group)
"separate" as in
"judge" then you (group) will be
"separated" (
discrete measure), for better or worse.
If you (plural, by implication group)
"distance" yourself as in
"measure", then you (group) will be
"distanced" (
continuous measure), for better or worse.
An important
"separation" is that of separating oneself from the love of Christ.
75. Directed vs. undirected
76. Matthew 7:1
KJV: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Greek: μη κρινετε ινα μη κριθητε
77. Matthew 7:2
KJV: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Greek: εν ω γαρ κριματι κρινετε κριθησεσθε και εν ω μετρω μετρειτε αντιμετρηθησεται μετρηθησεται υμιν
78. Translation issues
Many translations of these verses make assumptions on "
right" and "
wrong" that create logical continuity issues with what Jesus said. Here is the
NLT (New Living Translation).
If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. Matthew 18:15
But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. Matthew 18:16
If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won't accept the church's decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector. Matthew 18:17
Discuss:
How does this translation change what the verses appear to actually say?
How could pastors or people in the congregation misinterpret translations such as this?
79. Shunning
Shunning or separation of groups is one non-violent way to resolve conflict.
Mennonites
West Point (certain possible Honor Code violations)
This appears to be recommended by Jesus.
Matthew 5
Matthew 18
80. Groups
What happens when, instead of a person and the church one has a larger group within the church. The Greek for a group within a group is a "
heresy". Later, this word acquired a negative connotation.
Discussion question: Provide some examples throughout history whereby a church as a gathering of believers has disagreed on what constitutes "
sin" and has, as a result, split into two (or more) groups. Provide some examples where this has not been a peaceful split.
81. Method of the world
The world, as in the people of the world, tends to go against whatever the Bible says.
Consider an abstraction of on organization consisting of managers and workers.
82. Worker resolution - not allowed
Conflict will invariably happen between workers and/or managers.
In the world, one gets into trouble if one tries the Bible conflict resolution method. In fact, one often gets into more trouble resolving using the above method than the person who was not doing what they were supposed to do, or who wronged you.
The only way to get into more trouble might be to bring to light any corruption or mismanagement in the organization itself.
83. Manager resolution - required
Here is the method of the
world.
Send the message up the chain of command until the leader of both individuals is reached.
Send the message down the chain of command until the other individual is reached.
Continue communication in this manner until some decision is reached.
Discussion question: What are the advantages and disadvantages of each method? Which method would work better in practice?
84. Comparison
1 Manager-worker structure
2 Worker resolution - not allowed
3 Manager resolution - required
The general method of these
verses by Jesus appears to be as follows.
Resolve the issue at the individual to individual level
If not resolved, resolve the issue with one or two witnesses.
If not resolved, get everyone in that group (i.e., that church) to resolve the issue.
At no point does it appear to go to the top leader, or representative of the leader, of the organization. Why might that be the case?
Discuss: Do churches tend to use the Biblical approach or the worldly approach in dealing with conflict? Which method does your church use to resolve such conflicts?
85. Church conflict review
Consider
two viewpoints of the same phenomena from Matthew 18:15-17.
Discuss:
Why is it important that no action be taken against the individual and why might such actions not have been included in the guidelines provided by Jesus?
Discuss:
Do churches that have established a book of discipline, or something similar, violated what Jesus says in Matthew 18:15-17
Are we "
better together"? Are we "
better apart"? Jesus answers this question in the next verses. [Paul, Early Church Fathers, Catholic Church]
An issue with "
division" without "
action" is when the "
gathering of believers" has stored up "
treasure" on earth in terms of property, buildings, investments, etc. In any division, each side tends to want that "
treasure".
86. Stupid questions
Have you ever heard a teacher say "
there are no stupid questions"? Are there "
stupid people who ask questions"?
In academia, a "
stupid question" can be defined as a question asked by a student for which the answer has already been given or a question that does not relate to the current discussion, or
both!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein's (Physicist)
87. Matthew 18:15 Question by Peter
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. [kjv]
εαν δε αμαρτηση ο αδελφος σου υπαγε ελεγξον αυτον μεταξυ σου και αυτου μονου εαν σου ακουση εκερδησας τον αδελφον σου [gnt]
From what Jesus said in Matthew 6 in the Lord's Prayer as "
debts" and "
trespasses" and in the verses after as "
stupid things", there is no limit placed on the number of times one should "
forgive" or "
let go" in situations much more inclusive than just "
sin" or "
trespass" that are "
against me"!
These verses have to do with church conflict.
88. Matthew 18:21 Question by Peter
Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? [kjv]
τοτε προσελθων ο πετρος ειπεν αυτω κυριε ποσακις αμαρτησει εις εμε ο αδελφος μου και αφησω αυτω εως επτακις [gnt]
The words used by Jesus in verse 15 (third person) and the words used by Peter in verse 21 (first person) are the same except Peter adds
"against me". Both here and in chapter 6 what Jesus says subsumes
"against me". Discuss:
Did Peter ask a "stupid question"? Note that Peter (and others) often ask questions that others would ask.
How many sermons have you heard about how many times one should forgive, or let go, of a sin against oneself?
How many sermons point out that the answer has already been provided in Matthew 6 and/or the question is not relevant to what Jesus had been saying?
Why might that be the case?
89. Matthew 18:21
KJV: Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Greek: τοτε προσελθων αυτω ο πετρος ειπεν αυτω κυριε ποσακις αμαρτησει εις εμε ο αδελφος μου και αφησω αυτω εως επτακις
90. Matthew 13:24-30,36-43 Second kingdom parable: fault-tolerant approach to the toleration paradox
The parable of the wheat and the tares provides a
fault tolerant and realistic approach to the
tolerance paradox which, as a simple form of the Russell Paradox, has no logical solution but occurs often in society.
Parable: (encoded)
Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? [kjv]
ο δε εφη αυτοις εχθρος ανθρωπος τουτο εποιησεν οι δε αυτω λεγουσιν θελεις ουν απελθοντες συλλεξωμεν αυτα [gnt]
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [kjv]
ο δε φησιν ου μηποτε συλλεγοντες τα ζιζανια εκριζωσητε αμα αυτοις τον σιτον [gnt]
… zizania … triticum [v]
Explained: (decoded)
13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. [kjv]
ο δε εχθρος ο σπειρας αυτα εστιν ο διαβολος ο δε θερισμος συντελεια αιωνος εστιν οι δε θερισται αγγελοι εισιν [gnt]
91. End of page